As a digital marketer, I was looking for a way to send leads from custom opt-in forms on my website directly into my BeeHiiv account. BeeHiiv's built-in opt-in forms are rather limited, so I wanted more control over the lead capture process on my site without using Make or Zapier.
Rather than go down the plugin route or try to build something from scratch, I decided to take a simpler approach, using AI to generate the code for a custom webhook. This way, I could create a PHP script to handle the form submissions from my site and automatically send the data to my BeeHiiv account.
Getting custom integrations like this BeeHiiv webhook setup can be a headache. I was reading through the API doc and I was lost!
You either have to rely on dev teams and pay high fees or jerry-rig solutions with other automation tools and plugins.
But with the power of AI, I was able to quickly and easily create exactly the integration I needed—no coding expertise required!
Now let's get to the Beehiiv php script to start posting data to your BeeHiiv account.
The first step is to get your Publication ID and API key from within your BeeHiiv account:
With those credentials, I used Claude to generate a simple PHP script to handle the form POST data and integrate it with the BeeHiiv API.
Now I can use this on any custom form by pointing the form action to this PHP file. Whenever someone submits the form, it will automatically send their information to my BeeHiiv account as a new lead!
Here is the simple PHP webhook code that Claude generated for me.
<?php // API endpoint $url = 'https://api.beehiiv.com/v2/publications/pub_ID/subscriptions/'; // Subscription data $data = [ 'email' => $_GET['email'] ]; // Initialize cURL $ch = curl_init($url); // Set cURL options curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_RETURNTRANSFER, true); curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_POST, true); curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_POSTFIELDS, json_encode($data)); // Set headers curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_HTTPHEADER, [ 'Content-Type: application/json', 'Authorization: Bearer YOUR_API_KEY' ]); // Execute request and get response $response = curl_exec($ch); // Close handle curl_close($ch); // Print response echo $response; ?>
Now that we have the PHP webhook script, we need to connect it to our Avada form. You will simply upload this PHP file on your hosting provider and then copy that URL.
But first here are two important steps:
The first thing is to create the PHP file on your hosting server and enter your actual BeeHiiv credentials inside the script:
This allows the script to access your BeeHiiv account.
Now you can either remove the last 2 lines, print response section. It is good to just leave it here for testing. Once it is finalized, you can remove it.
Next, let us implement this into your Avada form. Essentially, you can use this script now in any form. I needed this code for my Avada themed website, but this is a very simple PHP integration code and can be used on any form.
If you're using the Avada WordPress theme as I am, you can easily connect your Avada forms to the BeeHiiv webhook for processing submissions with the PHP code I just provided.
Here's how to set it up:
The Avada form has its own basic validation (like required fields, email format, etc.). But any errors from the PHP code won't show up.
And that's it! Now your Avada form will process through the webhook to add leads to your BeeHiiv account automatically.
You can create opt-in forms, contact forms, surveys, and more this way without being limited to BeeHiiv's default options.
AI is the shit!!
Josh Sebo: Today we have industry legend Harrison Gevirtz, as well as another industry legend, Ian Fernando, a super affiliate that's been in the game for over 15 years, who also recently became the VP of network operations at A4D, a company led by Jason Akatiff. Who is a friend of the show that's fully committed to solving your marketing problems through technology.
Ian, I hate to bury the lead, but I know you're in Brazil. Thank you for joining us on the, you know, your side of the, of the world right now. What's going on by you over there?
Ian Fernando: Doing good. It's uh, pretty cloudy today. We're actually in the fall weather, uh, period of Brazil. Like, Brazil actually has four seasons.
So right now it's actually chilly and... Oh,
Harrison Gevirtz: and it's backwards. So like, winter is the summer? Or summer is the winter? Like, our summer is your winter?
Ian Fernando: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So after fall, within July, it'll be winter for sure,
Harrison Gevirtz: yep. I mean, how cold are we talking? I, like, I was gonna start off and be like, Why are you not at the beach?
And then you answered the question before I could ask. But, like, how cold does it get in the winter in Brazil? I mean, today's
Ian Fernando: fairly cold. It's, uh, what is it? Like 20 degrees Celsius? 70?
Harrison Gevirtz: Dude, what? 28 degrees Celsius? Bro, it is, it's like
Josh Sebo: 70. It's like 35. Look how cold I am. It's like 35 degrees Fahrenheit here in Cleveland, Ohio.
I'm fact checking myself. You're living the good life, my man. That's
Harrison Gevirtz: sick. Yeah, 20 Celsius. Fahrenheit, which it is like a nice day. It's not that bad. You don't have snow. Like you don't have blizzards, right? No,
Ian Fernando: no. Well, we do have hail. Like there are days where just poor as hail, so it's like knocking on your window.
I'm like, dude, this break my window shit. But yeah. So Ian,
Josh Sebo: how long, oh, go ahead.
Harrison Gevirtz: Yeah, go ahead. How long have you been there
Ian Fernando: for? Four months already. Uh, I came here last year, was here for three months. After we fell in love with it, it just reminds me of like, New York, and after like two weeks of just being here, I'm like, oh god, I gotta move here.
This is where I want to be based out of now.
Harrison Gevirtz: Voce fala português?
Ian Fernando: I don't speak Portuguese.
Harrison Gevirtz: I asked if he speaks Portuguese. I just googled translate. I didn't know. Oh, okay,
Josh Sebo: cool. I was like, damn, bro. Okay,
Ian Fernando: cool. I don't speak Portuguese.
Harrison Gevirtz: I like you speak it pretty damn well, man. So, you got that going for you.
Josh Sebo: Ian told me he goes out at night and uh... Talks to the locals and that's basically how he, he studies and he teaches in English. It's a beautiful thing.
Harrison Gevirtz: My, uh, my mom is French, and when I would go to France in the summer, I would just walk around and everyone and be like, , parle. So it's the same thing. That was my hustle.
Everyone, I'm just like, you speak English? And they're like, no. I'm like, great. Not making friends with you. Great, I'm making friends with you. People would tell me they didn't speak English, and then my mom would ask them with her legit French, and they'd be like, Oh yeah, I just don't want to talk English.
So, I was a loser in that regard. They're very proud of the French.
Josh Sebo: Yo, Ian. Ian, how did you meet Harrison? You briefly were telling me about it before you hopped on, but I love to make Harrison feel uncomfortable, so let's revisit that.
Harrison Gevirtz: Being uncomfortable is good for growth. Let's hear it. Yeah, so it's
Ian Fernando: a long time ago.
I'm pretty sure it was in Vegas, um, either on the show floor or at a club. I remember him having a pink, flirty, uh, uh, scarf. Uh, thumbs up Steve's
Harrison Gevirtz: and that's how I hate me.
Ian Fernando: Right? Uh, just I think it was either in the club or on the show floor and I just forget when but I remember him sticking out because of the pink flurry scarf and I'm like, ah, I know this kid.
I read about him and that's when I approached you, uh, talking about him. Damn, you've read
Harrison Gevirtz: about him. Not legally allowed to be in the club but I probably was at the club. People always ask me, why don't you really go to the club that often? I'm like, I got it out of my system at age 16. I'm over it.
Josh Sebo: I mean, speaking of the club, Harrison,
Harrison Gevirtz: I did make another appearance, you know, at rainbow, we, we really, we care about our customers.
So when a customer asks. I deliver and I was asked to go to the club. We're celebrating one of our clients birthdays. So I made an appearance. I really need to have earplugs with me at all times though. That is just the problem. It's too loud. I don't mind the club if I have earplugs. So
Josh Sebo: Harrison on the flip side, what's your version of how you met Ian?
Cause you guys seem to have known each other for a very long time.
Harrison Gevirtz: I believe it was an affiliate summit and I don't remember if it was a club or a. A show floor. What's funny is my first couple affiliate summits, they were 21 and up shows. And I wasn't allowed to go and so and I didn't want to burn the relationship and like borrow someone's badge because I didn't want to get banned from the show for when I was old enough because I knew that this is my industry.
I'm not going anywhere. And I hate. So I would sit like, it probably was the club because I. I finagled my way into the club, but I did not finagle my way into the trade shows. I would stand out front of the show and, like, do meetings or take people to, like, restaurants and stuff. And my memory's a little blurry, but I did have a pink scarf at one time in my life.
I was a different, different phase. I'm in the more of just not wearing pink.
Josh Sebo: Now you're in the, uh, yellow sunglasses inside phase. Yeah, you know
Harrison Gevirtz: what? Good call. As I was saying, I have to be classy, dress up a little for you guys. So yes, I remember that. You pretty much were like, Yo, what's up dude? Are you Harrison?
And I was like, yeah, what's up? And we met. This was back in the era where everyone had a blog. So you had your blog. I believe you already had your blog at this point. I had my blog. I think we did some guest posts a long, long time ago. Like, I was 15 years old, like, this is hilarious. I gotta dig it back in the database for this.
But, you know, we, we always crossed paths. I've seen you in different continents before. Like, I think I saw you at a show in London before. Uh, back.
Ian Fernando: I've seen you in the Far East. That one, you know,
Harrison Gevirtz: and uh, you know, we've always been, we've been pretty cool. We don't talk that often, but I know Ian Fernando, like someone's like, yo, can I talk to Ian?
I'd be like, yo, I'll message him on
Josh Sebo: messages. I, I know Ian Fernando and me and Ian like really don't know each other. Ian, I remember hearing about you. Cause I used to work with Darren Blatt at the affiliate ball. And he would always drop your name as a legend in the industry. When I was first getting started way back when.
But it's, uh, it's awesome to see that you're still crushing it. And speaking of this leads us right into our first topic. So as a super affiliate of 15 plus years, I'm curious, why did you make the move to a four D as the VP of network operations? Did you get tired of just doing the affiliate? You know, day to day and you want
Harrison Gevirtz: something online, late bidding of affiliating got old.
Josh Sebo: Yeah. Like why, why, why does, why does the guy who's crushing it for 15 plus years is a super affiliate? If it's okay to call you that, why does he make that change?
Ian Fernando: I guess it becomes boring, right? So there's, there's always something like where when you launch a campaign and. You get your first conversion, the building up to that campaign is the fun part, and then the conversion part becomes the boring part for me.
It's like, oh, I could probably scale this, but then I'm like, I don't want to, right? Because it's like easy. I think in part of my life now, I'm trying to look for what is next, uh, for me business wise. I've made some bad investments in the past, so I just need more education, right? A lot of bad financial decisions, too, with, uh, you know, just buying into other properties or buying into businesses.
And plus, the opportunity to just work with Jason is just... Sure. Gold, I think, in my opinion, too, right?
Josh Sebo: I mean, that's a topic that I threw in last night. We'll get to that, but I want to ask you more about that, but keep going. Sorry. It's more just
Ian Fernando: like, what is next? I just don't know what's next. Like, how do I grow, right?
Because in this industry, you're just either flipping Facebook accounts, Google accounts, arbitraging all day, like, I mean, what is, where are you technically growing once you figure out how to run a campaign very easily, right? Like, you create a campaign and you actually get bored of it, right? And for some people, like, it's fun, like for me, the money part is I've made so much that it's half become boring, right?
So where am I growing within the affiliate marketing? It's still the same thing. Sure, I'm adjusting to the traffic sources, to new offers, to maybe new verticals, new e commerce products, new... Traffic sources, but it's a very small percentage. Like where's the true growth in affiliate marketing for an individual, right?
Especially for a solo affiliate, right?
Josh Sebo: What's your day to day look like when you were first getting started? Let's go back 15 years, right? And then I want you to compare it to what your day to day looked like not now at A4D, but right before you made that switch. When you were just like, still I'm, I'm the super affiliate, right?
So like, cause I think there's probably a lot of Beginners who maybe this episode is their introduction to affiliate marketing. And there's probably some other super affiliates who are seeing if Ian Fernando is still, still got it. Right. So what was, what was the day to day and the difference of like that beginning and that not the end, but that transition to where you are now, man.
Ian Fernando: So if we start off with me having a job, uh, I mean, it would be like, I would work three, three jobs at a time and then work affiliate marketing for Two hours a day, but eventually some of this stuff turned into profit where I was able to get rid of two jobs and eventually got rid of the third job and then work to affiliate market, but it was like only 16 hour days.
Right. It wasn't like a regular nine to five, you know,
Harrison Gevirtz: you had that OG affiliate grind. I know. Yeah.
Ian Fernando: That 16 hour days, 20 hour days, you know, just refreshing your screen all the time.
Harrison Gevirtz: Yeah. You know, full time job of pressing F five.
Ian Fernando: Hopefully to see, especially when you're like, I was using tracking toe to back in the day, I would always look for the dollar sign in there and their lives on like
Harrison Gevirtz: the live where it would show like, click, click, click.
Ian Fernando: So obviously it was a lot of research, trial and error. At that time, I was running more Google, uh, traffic in the past. Now, obviously doing a lot more mixed. Um, but now I literally was probably only working like four or three hours a day, looking at campaigns, consistent, stable, doing things like uptaking traffic.
Why did something dip down X amount? Right, um, I even took like two years off, right, from affiliate marketing just because I have so much access that I'm like, I don't really need to work, right, or there are times where...
Harrison Gevirtz: When you took that time off, did you get like bored, or what did you do with your free time?
Like what were you up to during that time? Oh man, I just, I was
Ian Fernando: going through like a quarter life crisis.
Harrison Gevirtz: I'm having that currently. I, I, I, I recommend
Josh Sebo: it. I was gonna, I was gonna say everybody has their own version of that, but what did, uh, I mean, if you're comfortable sharing, like what did the crisis look like and how did you come through it?
Ian Fernando: It was just again, being, um, cause at that time it's like, okay, I was doing it also like Amazon doing print on demand, I was doing it for marketing. So I doing a whole vast. And I also just got out of a bad partnership with Nutra where we had a company for like five years for Nutra, killing it. And I'm just, I just needed a break and I just went to Asia for like two years and just partied every day.
You know, I just
Harrison Gevirtz: got drunk. You just got it out of your system. Yeah, exactly. Well, you're in Brazil partying now, so never mind.
Ian Fernando: Yeah, kind of, right? I mean, I'm not going hard, hard, hard, right? But it's just... Same thing, different country, but I'm not depressed. I'm not like, you know, trying to dissolve my sorrows in, in alcohol.
Like I was, you know, my core, like crisis issues, you know, for sure.
Harrison Gevirtz: So sense. So, well, I got a question for you real quick. Sorry. So like, I always think about how different the affiliate marketing industry is as a whole. From now, like today versus 15 years ago when I was like a young tyke running ads and getting clicks and leads and stuff, you know, what, what are a couple of things that stick out to you when you think about how different it is to be, you know, media buying and, and running traffic to offers because it's crazy how different things are and I'd love your perspective on that Ian.
Ian Fernando: Um, I think the level of affiliates back in the day till now are not as creative, like I'll still like, for example, I'll read like a one issue with tick tock was running debt. And they recently pulled up like a financial issue, you can do debt or credit something on on tick tock. So I'm like, Huh, I wonder what do they mean by that they're wording.
So I figured yeah, I measured all my wordings on my landing page, figured out how many 10% credit and debt of like 25%, and then I slowly remove certain words, or percentage of credit and debt, and every time I would get resubmitted, if I get denied or approved, I'd be like, oh, this is where the threshold is for accepting a landing page where I can push financial offers.
You don't get those type of affiliates anymore, that think like that, right?
Harrison Gevirtz: Well, to their defense, I will say this and you will agree, I mean, you, we're in the neutral world, so you get it. I think that the, uh, the entire internet, but especially direct response or affiliate marketing, online advertising, whatever you want to call it, Was much more of a wild west back then, you know, we don't have as many, uh, IQ test SMS offers or 4.
95 shipping free trial acai berry offers or like for, you know, psychic offers that are free, you know, like the quantity, the quality of offers is definitely a little bit better today, I think, and like, you kind of have to You can't just be shady anymore. Like, 15 years ago, people were just running, throwing shit at the wall, something sticks, who cares?
I see less Dr. Oz
Ian Fernando: on the internet. That is true, that is true. I mean, back in the day, I remember buying Google Ads for like... Justin Bieber, ringtones and like, yeah,
Harrison Gevirtz: no one cared now, like there's rules now. And I think that's good for longevity. If you could adapt and you can run stuff in a clean and productive manner, like you're going to succeed the fly by night operation of affiliate marketing, which was my youth, um, you know, it's kind of dead and that's, it's good, but it was fun.
Ian Fernando: I know I do. I do agree for sure. Like I, I've evolved from that, like. Make that money right now because I need it. I fully market my ATM, right? Just throw them that boom make money now. It's like shit. I actually need to turn this into a business You gotta try now. I gotta I gotta work with the partners with the advertisers directly to make sure Miley's it's good quality How to convert on their side what their true cpa, right?
So learning that side of business also is very very important but that evolution on a publisher side very very different now because Before you can just run, be a fly by literally right now. You kind of have to get involved with everybody that you work with.
Josh Sebo: Yeah. So I want to, I want to revisit the second half of the question.
You said at the beginning, it's like, I'm looking for that dollar sign on the ticker, right? I'm hitting that refresh button. So what did the affiliate game look like when you were at year 15? And you were in Fernando and everybody knew your name and you're crushing it. Like what did your day to day look like?
And how was it different from the beginning?
Ian Fernando: Uh, I mean, literally it's just like throwing up campaign three hours of work. There's really no big difference. Um, there's probably simple research that's happening, looking at ad spy tools. Since I already have so much knowledge from the past, I kind of just know what to throw up right away, what kind of layouts I need, what kind of ad or angles I need to go after.
Um, so not really much work. It's really... There's no complications in the work that I do now as a publisher, whereas before there's a lot more because of understanding the algo, click bidding, uh, ruling, probably thinking about more different angles back in the day, what work, keyword targeting. Now it's just, it's just so much knowledge in my head that's just a checkbox in my head now, right?
So literally three, Max three hours, four hours of work on and off, uh, you know, and just maintaining watching. I'm not even going after for like the 100k months anymore, like as long as I'm maintaining certain campaigns that are constant, because what, what I hate is campaigns that scale and then they die off and it's like two months of like no traffic, no income, like, okay, where do I go with certain offers that will stabilize, right?
I don't want to scale too much because it might just tick off the Facebook traffic algo and just kill it. Those are the things that are, that worry me more so.
Harrison Gevirtz: What would you tell... Real quick, I was just going to say, I think that one of the biggest changes I've seen from the affiliate mindset of 15, 16 years ago versus today is that people are beginning to think long term.
The analogy that Adam and I used is... When we kind of made the transition and began to build Ringba and, you know, made other investments and built other businesses, the, the analogy was we're done spinning plates. And we actually want to build something. And I think that, that is an important mindset shift that this whole industry has seen.
Um, like, you just, you just spoke the word of it. Like, it's how it is. It's pretty cool, honestly. Yeah. To hear that.
Ian Fernando: I think it's cool that publishers like to build. Like, I, example, like, I like enjoying building the campaign. Right? Um, and it was fun. Again, the conversion part and the maintenance becomes like the annoyance part for me nowadays.
Right? Uh, but I mean, now I can throw the analysis into ChatGPT and it tells me which one's, which one's better.
Josh Sebo: Ian, we're not allowed to talk about ChatGPT anymore. We've spoken about it for probably like 75%. And they
Harrison Gevirtz: refuse to give us money for sponsorship. No, we haven't actually tried. But no, they're just getting
Josh Sebo: in.
I was going to ask you, like, what's something you would tell that newbie 15 years ago, if you like that you wish you would have known when you were getting started, that you have acquired, you know, over the past 15 years that you feel like really would have given you a leg up. If someone's watching this, they're getting started.
What would you like really tell them to focus on to, to kind of skip a lot of the. Trials that you had to go through
Ian Fernando: trials, man. I don't know about trial, but I'll tell him like collect leads, like always collect leads. Like if I had my email list from like my blog and in the new two days, I can only just throw an email, write it up in 30 minutes or an hour, and then that would be it.
Most of my day would work. Right. So like I'm doing a new two days. We had like a million records of like, we had another, like three, three point something of like contacts. And if I was, if I kept that warm throughout the years, I can just throw up an email a day and just be good with it.
Josh Sebo: So to comment on that, how, how would you suggest kid electing leads and making contacts like that?
Like what, what were your best methods of doing that? Well,
Ian Fernando: it's using the vertical, creating a simple opt in. Like we were doing stuff for like, uh, an ebook to affiliate offer. That's what I would do. Right. I just, I tell a lot of people to always usually do that, right? It's just a landing page, right? The only difference is you'll probably get a 2% sleeper scope.
What I've noticed is a 2%, 3% down in your LPCTR, but you have to lead, you know, so that's the most important part. Right, but it still acts similar as a landing page, you know, instead of getting a 60% LPCTR, you probably get like 57, 56, 55 LPCTR just because there's an option in there, but it just tells you that at least more qualified because they're taking an action and hopefully they turn into conversion through your seven day email series, right?
Harrison Gevirtz: Quantity. Quality over quantity is what you're saying. So you might lose a couple of visitors, but your quality overall is going to increase. You might make up that difference in a getting a bump on the offer you're running because the quality is so damn good. Yeah,
Ian Fernando: exactly. Harrison,
Josh Sebo: what would, oh, go ahead.
Yeah. I don't mean to cut you up.
Ian Fernando: No worries. I just always tell publishers to always collect because if, if I had that list today, I wouldn't just, I wouldn't be working. I just be like collecting leads every day for that same YouTube stuff. And just send an email a day easy, you know,
Josh Sebo: Harrison, I was going to ask you the same question, like, what would you tell the guy wearing the pink scarves, you know?
Harrison Gevirtz: Don't wear pink fucking scarves.
Okay, okay, we're on the same page here. Um, no, you know, I think that, uh, when I was younger, I probably could have been a little more frugal. I probably would have said don't buy jewelry. Um, you know, you, you've made bad financial decisions. I, as well, when I was younger, uh, have made plenty of bad financial decisions.
Um, so, you know, that is a lesson learned. Um, but, you know, I think that I, I guess I would tell myself now, if I was talking to me then that. I should start to I should I should have that spinning plates analogy. I wish I saw the light on that a little bit sooner because I'm really proud with the businesses we built and what I've done.
But, you know, it's really a grind when you're affiliate when you're being an affiliate, you're going hard and, you know, you're having these 7 whatever K days and you're, you know, you're netting 40, 50% margins. And then you wake up 1 morning and that should just burn to the ground. Like. That's mentally taxing.
Like there's this, this little story, I won't go into too many details, but Adam and I had a, had a business about nine years ago now, and it was a, you know, close to six figure daily revenue business for almost like two years. Like we crushed it. And one day there were some browser updates, Google changed some rules and that we thought the server was down and no, it was like, we just got nuked.
Like it was zero. And that was actually kind of the moment where we went. Like that was fun. We crushed it. I tried to like save face, like, Hey, let's, let's relaunch. Let's get our, and we realized like, no, you got to just build, you know, build something that lasts for the longterm. And so I would tell myself to look at things that I can build for the longterm.
Because if I had started that mission when I was younger. Probably build some cool shit versus like just trying to find another diet offer or dating offer or pin submit to promote.
Ian Fernando: Yeah, exactly. I mean, I remember when I first, first started, um, I bought a house cause back in the day all these bloggers were buying homes.
I'm like, I can buy a house too. So I'm just going to buy a house. Right. And then I think like a couple months in my revenue. I was losing like 5 to 7k a day and I actually got into like depression, like my first depression and it was so bad because like with like three months of like no, no revenue coming in and just losing money trying to figure out why.
And at that point I was like Damn, did I get in this industry by accident? Am I actually really good? Do I actually have talent? Am I good at marketing? Or was it just by luck of the draw, right? That's what was racing through my mind back, back then. But eventually, things got back up. Uh, you know, slowly, slowly, uh, Racked up a bunch of credit cards, but came back through, you know what I mean?
But yeah, those days where it just gets nuked and you're like a month without revenue. That's the downside of affiliate marketing for sure, right? And that's like the ugly side of it too,
Harrison Gevirtz: right? Those days when you wake up and you're like, shit, I got no campaigns running or I'm breaking even, are painful.
Um, you know, I had a funny discussion like 10 years ago with someone and he said that he stopped his campaigns because they weren't profitable enough and I, I know this isn't fully relevant, but I just, I want to share it because I always baffled me when he told me this. He's like, yeah, I was making like 7% margins, 10% margin.
So I just stopped. It wasn't worth my time. And I'm thinking like. Dude, what the fuck? Like, if I make, if I spend a hundred dollars, and I make a hundred dollars and six cents, I'm keeping the ads running, bro. Like, come on, right? You know,
Ian Fernando: so now at that point, it's like, oh, is it optimization? And what I do need to adjust is a campaign structure, right?
Harrison Gevirtz: So let me try to negotiate a bump on the offer. Let me go run, write some new ads. Let me see what I can do to increase my, you know, CTR on my landing page. Let me up my quality score with Google. Let's try some new ad sets on Facebook. Like keep hustling, man. I, when I heard that, I was like, this dude's coasting.
Like, come on, bro.
Ian Fernando: A lot of affiliates are coasters nowadays, I've noticed, right? So.
Harrison Gevirtz: I gotta be careful on this one, but a lot of people coast and there's a lot of people that have very successful businesses and they could be more successful if they didn't coast. How's that? I'm saying politically correct today.
Ian Fernando: Definitely agree. Definitely agree. Ian,
Josh Sebo: where do you see the affiliate? Game going in the future. You've been around a pretty long time. I know we like briefly touched on where it was and where it is now, but like, where do you see it evolving to over the next few years? And how do you feel like you're going to have to adapt to like, stay on top?
Ian Fernando: I don't think it really changes. I think it adjusts, right? Adjust more. Like I think everybody's going to need a broker for a lead for sales, right? Only adjustment industry does is getting used to new traffic sources, getting used to like AI development, for example, you know, creative adjustments, you know, whether you get video content, like how do you adjust from doing all creative from like image to now video, right?
Um, like for me, I recently just adjusted into paper call, like just last year and that's a very interesting topic, right? Or maybe like five years ago, more into, more into a push over pop, right? Or maybe three years ago, I got more into vertical videos, right? Versus, uh, creatives. So I wouldn't say the industry changes, it's just adjusting, you know what I mean?
So that's how I see it. Everybody's gonna need a broker. Everybody needs referrals. Everybody's gonna need, um, somebody to give them sales, right? So that arbitraging, I don't think will ever change. But the adjustment of getting used to new concepts, ideas, evolutions of the industry, you just gotta adjust to it,
Harrison Gevirtz: I think.
You know, I, I agree with most of what you said, but there's 1 thing that I, I think that I disagree with. And it's, you mentioned the new traffic sources. I think about 15 years ago, how many more traffic sources existed than today with what we run, you know, there's been a true consolidation and a lot of the traffic sources where now, you know, the majority of traffic is coming from Google, Facebook, tick tock.
It's like, that's a lot. Now, there's definitely those push networks. There's definitely domain traffic. There's definitely, there's still pop ups. There's still video ads, but I, I, I think like continued consolidation is a real thing. Um, you know, the Internet has become double click with its own thing.
That's Google. You know what I mean? Instagram was a separate thing. Facebook now has their own, you know, you know, they're everywhere. So I agree with you there though. Uh, 1 thing that I believe. And I think that, you know, I, I don't think it's going anywhere, but I think it's, it's harder to just be the affiliate that buys traffic on Google throws up a quick landing page and generate some leads or throws people to calls.
I think now people have to actually build products and not like an offer. I mean, like, A directory or a site that's resource intensive and has, or, you know, for a customer, like there's resources. If we're talking about credit repair, financial services, or insurance, it's not just like, here's my insurance lender call for Medicare or call for ACA, whatever you got to actually.
Invest in what you're showing the customer and focus on quality. Content and like building something because these big companies that are buying calls or buying leads, they have media buying teams too. And you gotta, you know, I guess you could say in today's world as a, as a media buyer, as an affiliate, you have to prove your value a little bit more, which I think is good because it's going to teach those coasters to stop coasting.
Ian Fernando: Uh, you know, affiliate for sure. It is hard. Um, that's why I think a lot of affiliates have evolved into teams, agencies. Two partnerships, one, get the resources, talking to the advertiser, direct one, running the media, buying one, setting it up. Right. I think that also is just an adjustment in the industry because validation is also, I think you're right.
It's also an adjustment. Like native traffic, like almost taboo and our brain almost or taboo, almost buying out our brain, right? It would have been a crazy consolidation of that source as well. But Yeah, I mean, there's so many traffic from like, Quora to Reddit, but all the volume ones, obviously, with the tier threes, uh, tier ones, you know, Google, Facebook,
Harrison Gevirtz: YouTube.
There just used to be a lot more tier two and tier three now, you know, and now it's like, that's still there, but it's not what it was, and, and I, I do say, and I'm not actively buying Meteor these days, you know, but I miss those options, because I had a lot of fun with those. Those were... You could, like, make a, build a relationship with someone, spend a shitload of money, make a shitload of money, and, like, good luck building a relationship with Google.
They don't really like, they don't like
Ian Fernando: anyone. Yeah, I, dude, I remember we were spending, like, close to half a million with Google for Neutro Days, and we got, they gave us a plaque of, on that day when we spent our first million with them, they gave us a plaque of, you know how, like, Google changes their, uh, their screen or logo every day?
They sent us a plaque of that day, of what the logo was, and like, dude, that's what we get for like, spending money on a house. Yeah, dude, I just,
Josh Sebo: I just rolled my eyes when you said that. I was like, damn,
Harrison Gevirtz: alright. Yeah, it was like falling apart. You're like, dude, really? Okay, I guess that's what we'll, I'll take the gift.
Josh Sebo: remember, do you remember what, like, it was? What was the day? Like, what were they celebrating?
Ian Fernando: Yeah, I don't know what the, the, yeah,
Josh Sebo: it was always like a fun game. When I opened my browser, I'm like, Hmm, can I figure out what this actually is for?
Ian Fernando: Yeah. I have no clue. Yeah. I was like, it just came in a mail.
I'm like, thanks for your first million. And it was a picture of the.
Harrison Gevirtz: A box of tic tacs and a shitty Google logo, right? Yep, pretty
Ian Fernando: much it. Yeah, so, it is what it is.
Josh Sebo: Are you still doing a lot of work with Google, Ian?
Ian Fernando: Nah, most of my traffic would be internal with uh, H3D currently. So, I test traffic now with them, and then pass it over to the internal team, you know.
Josh Sebo: So, I know you, I know you travel a lot. We briefly talked about Brazil, and I know, So basically you were kind of a digital affiliate marketing nomad for, you know, eight years. And honestly, it sounds like you might still be in some regard. So I'm curious, like, you know, I asked you what the typical day looked like from the beginning to where you are now, but I'm curious, like, how does the travel affect your day to day?
What are some of the trap challenges associated with travel? What are some of the beauties of it? And what would you kind of say to an affiliate who maybe is buying a one way ticket to Thailand They know what their work is going to be, but they don't know what their life is going to be.
Ian Fernando: Man, that's, that's a crazy question.
I don't know. I travel with a very, very open mind where I think getting lost is very important. Um, losing yourself, uh, in the city, rediscovering yourself. I think it's important, right? As a publisher and affiliate. I think routines are very important. I have a very strict morning routine. Like I don't pretty much start my day to like 10 o'clock.
Josh Sebo: Well, can I, can I jump in right there? I'm really
Harrison Gevirtz: curious. Do you wake up at 10 in the morning or you start
Josh Sebo: your work? Can you, can you walk us through the morning routine? Unless it's like super personal and you don't want to share, but I'm curious. Cause I think a lot of people. Like, we, we talk about routine on the show all the time, especially in the morning, non negotiable wake up times, meditation, stuff like that.
So what does your morning routine look like?
Ian Fernando: Uh, I'm usually up by 7 30, pretty much automatic since the sun hits my window. Um, I'm up, you know, a little bathroom, take care of the manly stuff, right? Uh, then I pull out my yoga mat. I do my stretches for 15 minutes, meditate for another 10 minutes. Then I go to the gym for an hour, hour and a half, dependent.
You know, cook breakfast, do a little errands in the morning. But that's pretty much my fixed routine. Like, I have to do my stretching, yoga, meditation, gym, in the morning first, for sure. Like, before, before 8 o'clock.
Josh Sebo: If you need any tips on, on the gym, Harrison's your guy. I don't know if you follow him on Insta, but he's...
Ian Fernando: see him on Instagram. Plumbing my
Josh Sebo: irons. He's getting after it. New PRs every day, bro. Uh, so that's, that's actually really interesting. I have my own morning routine. It's similar. I'm not really working out, but I always try and meditate. I find my day is always a lot more balanced when I do. And one of my favorite quotes is like, if you don't have the time, if you can't find, I think it's Tim Ferriss, maybe.
It's like, if you can't find 10 minutes to meditate, you should probably find 20 or something like that. But, uh, so it takes you to 10 a. m. And I think that's. Dope. Because you're not putting out fires as soon as you wake up. So what happens at 10 a. m.
Ian Fernando: I log in, check stats and I go, you know, now that I'm with A4D check, uh, tickets, how their traffic, what did we do yesterday or the revenue.
Right? Why are we down? You know, I just create a whole list of like, errors of what I gotta look for. So, every morning, writing out notes of what I gotta do. Right? So...
Josh Sebo: Dude, I'm a big notebook guy. Yeah, same. Love a good cross off, dude. Nothing feels better.
Harrison Gevirtz: I feel like I need to share my routine now. So yeah.
Josh Sebo: Well, we all, we all, we all watch it on Instagram every day, but yeah, you can
Harrison Gevirtz: watch it. Well, okay. So I have to say full disclosure, my routine is going to change. I've been in Scottsdale, Arizona now for a couple of years. And on Saturday, I'm actually moving to Miami. So if you're listening and you're in Miami, you should say what's up.
Cause I'm new to a city. I want to make lots of new friends. Um, but. I typically start my day with my Arizona routine at 3 45. It's real. See, I didn't just make that up and I wake up. I eat a small snack and then I drink pre workout. I have a special 1 that it's called crack gold edition. It makes me shake and feel like I'm having a heart attack.
I spend about 3045 minutes checking emails that I got overnight. See if anything, you know, needs urgent attention. Um, and then I'm at the gym. Monday, Tuesday, or yeah, Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday, I go at 5 a. m. On Wednesdays, it's 6. Um, I do an hour workout, come back, protein shake, sometimes have some egg whites, which taste terrible.
Um, and I just start working and I grind pretty much non stop until about 2. 30. Then I got a 3. 15 workout. After that, I get home except on Tuesdays and Thursdays. I do Pilates after the workout, um, and then I work for like, maybe two, three more hours, go eat an early dinner, and I try but usually fail to be in bed before, like, I try to go to bed at 8.
30, but I usually don't go to bed at like 9. 30, 10, um, I definitely meditate. I usually meditate before bed, actually, but sometimes, and I have that free hour after I wake up, And go to the gym. I actually will meditate if nothing happened and I'm feeling a little on edge or something. I'll just I do like I use the insight timer app, which has a bunch of free meditations and I really like it and it tracks me.
I got to like 64 days. Uh, in a row and then I burned myself one night and I didn't meditate till after midnight. So like, I didn't break my cycle, but the app is like,
Josh Sebo: so yeah, that's, I was really, you gotta hit up, you gotta hit up the tech team over there and see if they can help
Harrison Gevirtz: you out. No, I I'm holding myself accountable.
So I lost my streak, but, um, yeah, like. I think having a routine is really important. I was actually, so I'm here at Vegas right now. Uh, I was at the Medicarians trade show. Reba has a big booth here and I've taken my fitness levels to an extreme level of douchiness. So I actually brought a trainer with me and I was telling him this morning, like dude, cause he trains me in Arizona.
I said, dude, I'm really scared about like my routine. Like I gotta have a routine. He's like. Don't worry, bro. You got a month you'll figure out, you'll figure out your routine. You'll get your routine. But like, that's one of my people like, are you scared of moving? I'm like, no, I'm scared about my routine.
I'm going to be like, so insistent for the first little bit. So routine is key. That's for
Ian Fernando: sure. Especially when you travel for sure. Like I try to bring that routine wherever I go, but the first week is like, you know, jet lag definitely ruins it, but. As long as I have that routine. I don't even have breakfast before like nine o'clock, right?
Uh, so I go straight to the gym. Bro, I
Josh Sebo: don't even I don't even eat breakfast, dude I do like intermittent fasting not by choice But just because I slam coffee and it crushes my appetite and then I eat like a massive dinner And that's kind of I don't know. It's not even like I know people like consciously try to do that It's just like how my body works at this point.
I don't know. I was gonna ask you Ian though Do you have like a non negotiable like? Bedtime, if you wanna call it that, like, to make sure you get a certain amount of sleep or you just kind of like wing it depending on what you got going on. Yeah. So most of the week,
Ian Fernando: I, most of the week I try to be in bed like by 10 for sure.
Uh, but I do go out a lot. Um, but I, I try to be home before 11 for sure. Like last night I was home by like 10 o'clock. You know, uh, so I was able to get in bed before 11, but I do try to get in like at least six, seven hours for sure.
Harrison Gevirtz: So I, I got a digital nomad smell test for you. Two questions. Do you live in an Airbnb or did you sign a lease?
Josh Sebo: is a great question. We were just talking about this. Okay, go ahead.
Ian Fernando: So this is now a lease, but was an Airbnb.
Harrison Gevirtz: Okay. Then you have retired from Digital Nomad Life , and you're officially adulting in Brazil.
Ian Fernando: Congratulations. Well, I, I am. Thank you. Thank, well, I am trying to like settle because. So you wanna stay there for a while?
Yeah. Yeah. So I'm, I'm working on my digital nomad visa right now, which will give me two years here. Oh, that's cool. Um, so, yeah, 'cause again, I just fell in love with the city and plus the big issue I'm trying to now resolve in my life, like relationships. Right. Because the dating scene is hard when, when you're leaving the country every 90 days.
Harrison Gevirtz: that's one thing. Well, I, I just realized you, we said you were in Brazil, but I don't actually said what city you're in. So where are you at? Uh, Sao Paulo. Nice. Have you explored some of the other cities in Brazil? Have you traveled around the country at all? Like, what is, what's like the difference between like, I think Sao Paulo is inland, right?
And Rio is on the water?
Ian Fernando: Yeah, Rio's on, Rio's on the water, yeah. I was in Rio last year. Amazing. Uh, definitely smaller. Um, definitely a little bit more dangerous. But it was cool. You know what I mean? Um, like you can see, if you're on the beach, you can still literally see people from the favelas rob people on the beach like every day.
Right? So, even like, you'll see them at gunpoint. It's like, it's just normal to everybody on the
Harrison Gevirtz: beach. It's like a chick in a bikini getting pointed a gun at her to take her phone. Wow, that's rough. Okay.
Ian Fernando: And then I went to, uh, South, uh, Bahia, which is another, I flew about 30 minutes, no, no, an hour and a half flight from here.
That's also near the coast and that was fun, uh, but very, very hot. So, but I like, I'm a city person. I'm not really a nature person. So let's
Josh Sebo: talk about, uh, A4D and Jason, you know, you mentioned like, you got a little bored of the affiliate life and like working under. A guy like Jason, like what more needs to be said, but I really would like to know, like, what is it like working with Jason?
Uh, you know, for anyone who didn't watch our episode with Jason, I would highly recommend it. I believe it's episode two. And I think it's the most viewed episode that we have, if I'm not mistaken. But it's either
Harrison Gevirtz: episode two or three. I'm I'll check. Yeah. I'm
Josh Sebo: pretty sure it's two. I'm the moderator here.
Don't ever question me again. All right. Uh, so I want to know like, what, what, what's it been like, like, is it. I mean, whatever you're comfortable saying, but like, is it a little bit intimidating? Are you feeling challenged in ways you haven't before? And if so, like what are some of the challenges and how have they impacted your growth as you know, a business person and a human being?
Ian Fernando: I mean, Jason definitely challenged me a lot for sure. Um, so when I had my businesses, what I realized as a business owner, especially during Nutra and like my Amazon stuff was like, I hated being like a CEO. Right. I just hated dealing with employee dramas and things of that nature, right? It's just, it was just so petty to me.
But now that I'm helping Jason with the network, he's pushing me to do the, doing more of a delegation, like understanding how to delegate properly without being so forceful, demanding, things of that, right? Whereas I know before I'd be like, damn, why, why, who cares about this? Let's just do this. Right.
Being super aggressive to my employees, whereas now it's just like, well, make sure you have trust, make sure you care. Don't do it in a demeaning way. Like he'll coach me through a lot of stuff, which is very, very helpful. Um, but it's also intimidating because when numbers are down, he'll. He'll ask why numbers are down and I'll be like, Well, there's an issue here, there's that, right?
Um, and I hate being
Harrison Gevirtz: He probably has good feedback though when you're dealing with those issues. He probably can help you strategize and stuff. For sure.
Ian Fernando: No, for sure he does. The problem is I, I always hate giving him bad news, right? Because it's like, like disappointing like your favorite uncle or your dad, right?
Like It's like, oh, sorry, I couldn't get it. It's like, it's very hard, right? He's such a legend, super knowledgeable that you don't want to disappoint him, right? And that's, that's the intimidating part that I have with him, right?
Josh Sebo: So what are some of the ways you try not to disappoint him? Like, do you have...
Some things that you really focus on, or is it just kind of like you have that fire under your ass and you're just working as hard as you can? Yeah,
Ian Fernando: uh, I mean, I'm working as hard as I can for sure, but it's a lot of strategizing with the team, trying to push them to, you know, get more publishers, get more publishers to run specific offers.
Now that we're getting into the paper call, uh, space more so, and a lot of our publishers over at AE has are more lead gen, e com. So trying to work with them, trying to get them, hey, let's, I'll help you find these, uh, call publishers, right? Let's do this. Maybe we need to go through the email newsletter.
Let's go through your book of business. Let's start getting on more phone calls, right? How do we strategize with your publishers? Can we, you know, evolve them from a lead gen person to, you know, a call person, right? So it's more of a strategizing part, which is, uh, fun, but also like, Not fast resulting, right?
Because if Jason wants, you know, results tomorrow, and I'm starting a strategy today, that strategy doesn't get implemented probably until the end of the week or next week, right? So, yeah.
Josh Sebo: And was it Jason who like said like, Hey, You're a legend. I would love to have you on my team or was it you that said that to him or was it over years you guys kind of just kept talking, Hey, I'd love to do something with you.
Like, how did, how did all this come to be where you actually ended up getting the opportunity?
Ian Fernando: Yeah. Yeah. Um, John Vogel reached out to me. Um, cause they're, Jason was looking for a campaign strategist to help publishers scale their businesses. Uh, so. It would have been a good idea where I would, and so I first came on board to help publisher scale, like going from like 10 figures a day to six figures a day through, through strategy, through maybe campaign restructuring or whatever, just having another mind to talk about the campaigns.
But it looked, it literally took me like two months where I was deciding, arguing with myself, like, do I want to do this? Do I want to do that? Um, And then I was like, sure, I'll do it. I think the idea is to just get knowledge, uh, and expertise from Jason. That's where I see the value for me, right? Because again, I'm looking for growth.
As a person, and Jason definitely can deliver that, right?
Harrison Gevirtz: Real quick, uh, Josh, you're right. Jason was episode 2, not episode 3. I am wrong. I take accountability when I'm wrong.
Josh Sebo: Ian, what kind of discounts are you getting on the yachts? On the what? On the yachts.
Ian Fernando: Yachts. No clue. No clue. You
Harrison Gevirtz: haven't shopped for a custom yacht from Jason yet?
Come on, dude, step it up.
Ian Fernando: Ladies. I have to step it up, you're right, exactly.
Adam Young: So you guys started without me? What the
Josh Sebo: fuck? I was about to say, ladies and gentlemen, Adam Young from Ringba. How are you, Adam? What's going
Ian Fernando: on? I love the hair.
Adam Young: Good. Sorry, guys. I had to take a meeting at this trade show that's going on right now, but I just wanted to pop in and say, what's up, Ian?
Thanks for coming on the show. Of
Ian Fernando: course. Of course. Appreciate it. Thanks on. Dude,
Josh Sebo: Ian's been crushing it. This has been a great episode. Uh, Adam, I mean, now that you're here, like. Why don't you hop right in? What do you got, what do you got for Ian? Any questions?
Harrison Gevirtz: Adam did extensive show prep, I'm sure.
Ian Fernando: Yeah, yeah.
Adam Young: Yeah, uh, yeah, I am curious, man. Like what, what was it like for you going down to Brazil and changing your diet entirely to like the local food as opposed to what we eat up here in America, which is generally pretty shitty. Like, I'm just curious how that
Ian Fernando: process went actually. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't eat a lot of local Brazilian food.
I, I mean, I just go to nice restaurants here. Uh, like they're really good food. Like a lot of Japanese food is very, very good here.
Harrison Gevirtz: Um, I read that the large, I think the largest Japanese population outside of Japan is in Brazil.
Ian Fernando: Yeah, I was just going to say that. Exactly. Yeah. So they have like 11 Michelin star restaurants here that are just purely Japanese.
So, I mean, like sometimes I'll, I'll, I'll, uh, I'll have local food when, you know, I have a girl, but I mean, most of the time I'm going to nice, nice restaurants, like decent Thai restaurants, Thai places, you know, Japanese food more specifically. Right. So no change really.
Josh Sebo: Actually discussing food and now that we're, you know, graced by the presence of the Adam Young.
Adam, I, I saw on Instagram, you had a dinner. In Vegas with 20 CEOs. Is that right?
Harrison Gevirtz: Yeah.
Ian Fernando: So,
Adam Young: uh, on Monday night, I hosted a dinner with our good friend, Sam Malamud, who is the CEO of NCD insurance, and also one of the partners in Medicarians. I don't know if that's Public or not, but guess it is now. And, uh, so he had hit me up and asked if I wanted to host a CEO dinner with him.
So we looked at all the CEOs who were attending the show and tried to pick out a really amazing group of people. Not just because they're CEOs, but also, you know, who's interesting. Who's working on really cool projects and from different areas of the industry. And then we all invited them to Hakkasan, uh, and had the big private dining room there.
And thank you to Harrison who put together an unbelievable menu for that. It was outrageous. We got through
Harrison Gevirtz: the appetizers. I was full when they finished the appetizers. Literally
Josh Sebo: I was like, fuck. I peeped, I peeped the menu. Cause I think you posted a pic. It looked pretty insane. Yeah, we
Adam Young: literally have 20 pounds of leftovers in the fridge
Harrison Gevirtz: over here.
I'm gonna go have Chinese food after the pod. Like, we got so much.
Adam Young: But we love hosting events like that. And, um, you know, I actually met Ian at a Geek Out event recently. I mean, I've known of him for over a decade, you know, we're both old, old. People in our industry. Um, but I met him at an event. And so I really loved these types of events, hosting CEO dinners and other type of dinners like this, because anytime you can get 20 brilliant CEOs in the same room to talk about anything, like it's not just like new business comes out of that, the world will literally change.
Like if you can get 20 incredible entrepreneurs together, put them at a table and get them talking about. The things that they're passionate about, they literally will go out and change the world. And so I absolutely love being involved in events like that and hosting events like that. And we try and do it regularly.
Um, and it was, it was such a great time. And so thank you to everyone who came. I have like, no doubt that some incredible changes in our industry will come out of just Uh,
Harrison Gevirtz: that dinner,
Josh Sebo: are you able to tell us, like, what some of the discussion topics were from a bird's eye view? Because, well,
Harrison Gevirtz: actually, Josh, we have a rule at the dinners.
It's no pitching, no snitching. So, no, but what I will say is that it's just a, it's like a mind meld. Like, we, we weren't only talking about business. We were talking about things we're passionate about outside of our work, things we do in our lives. And like, it was really just like, um, A really great group of people just talking about what they're good at, what they're, you know, and what we're not good at, what we want to do better, what we need help with.
We, I think most people at that dinner brought up a, maybe an issue or a problem that they're dealing with and trying to solve in their business. And, you know, people that. Don't even do the same thing, like, that are completely in a different, you know, wavelength or different kind of world. Like, not everyone there was an Internet marketer.
There was a lot of people that are on, like, the services and software side for Medicare insurance, like, providing software to. Insurance agents and stuff like that, but they were able to just give ideas and feedback just because everyone's like we're in a safe space. Everyone kind of trusts each other because they're at this dinner.
And so everyone's kind of willing to share and open up and help each other. And that's why it's such a great vibe at those types of
Ian Fernando: events. Yeah, I remember like back in the day when I was my first affiliate, uh, show, oh no, my second one, I wanted to do like a dinner with just publishers that I wanted to talk to, like the high end ones, like back in the day with like Charles Ngo, Wayne Sheriff, uh, Chad, you know, and just having a dinner and just paying for everything just so I can have
Harrison Gevirtz: Just soak up knowledge like a
Ian Fernando: sponge.
Yeah, and then that turned into a trend.
Harrison Gevirtz: Thanks I also didn't go, but I, fucker.
Adam Young: You know, Josh, I actually would like to give an award. I'd like to give a trade show award on the show right now. I would like to give the trade show award for the biggest fucking balls. To the CEO of Health IQ, who actually showed up in person at this event and hung out with some of the people he owes tens of millions of dollars to and isn't paying.
So, shout out to that guy. Wanted to thank him again for not paying a whole bunch of our clients tens of millions of fucking dollars. Really appreciate that. Yeah, and so I gotta give him some props buddy way to take our clients money and use it to buy Uh trade show passes probably nice hotel rooms, but I will give it to him took some fucking balls to show up Damn, that is wild.
Josh Sebo: Damn is right. You own the episode. That was lit. Did you, uh, did you get a chance to speak with him, Adam? No.
Harrison Gevirtz: Yeah. Some people we know did and they had some friendly conversations though.
Adam Young: Yeah. I just got to meet with a bunch of my customers who saw him here who were very upset that they still haven't been paid their tens of millions of dollars.
And so as. a software provider in the industry, it's pretty frustrating to hear that someone like that, uh, just isn't paying their bills. And not only that, he won't even talk about it. So, um, and by the way, I invite him on the show. I would love to have him as our special guest. To talk about what happened at Health IQ, please come on the show.
Let's have an honest, open conversation about it. I won't even harass you about the debt you owe my customers. And let's talk about when things go wrong. I'd be happy to talk about the times I had to do mass layoffs, and my businesses went under, and I
Harrison Gevirtz: had to move back. I can talk about my failures at EWA.
I'll get vulnerable. We'll have a vulnerable. Yeah, let's do it. Therapy and podcast.
Ian Fernando: Yes!
Adam Young: So we invite you, please
Josh Sebo: come! Uh, Ian. I'm curious. Ian, have you ever had a situation where you've been owed a bunch of money or you've gotten locked? Or you've gotten burned? How much does Harrison owe you? How much does Harrison owe you?
actually, uh How did you
handle it? What would be advice to some of these people? I'm sure Health IQ is a bigger Issue for them right now, but what did you do to get through
Ian Fernando: it? I don't have really, I mean, I've had payout issues, but I think one big one was, uh, a promoting offer in, um, Europe. And, uh, so they, they had to pay out in like, uh, US dollars, uh, in their dashboard, but because I think the Euro was adjusted, they adjusted that pay at like 30, but I ran a traffic for it for maybe a week.
And they wouldn't pay me that difference of like the three or four dollars. So that kind of annoyed me, but I mean, all you can do, not,
Josh Sebo: not quite on the same scale as how, yeah, okay.
Ian Fernando: I've had, I mean. I haven't really had like big payout losses, uh, and I've been very, very lucky with that just because I've had a good relationship with, uh, the people with my AMs and plus I have a blog, right?
So, like I remember shouting out like DirectTrack for being a shitty tracking platform. They wanted to pay me like Dude, DirectTrack,
Harrison Gevirtz: that's, I, yeah, dude.
Ian Fernando: And they wanted to pay me like 10k to take that post down. I'm like, nah, I'm gonna keep it up. Um, they actually want to even fly me down to their office to discuss how to make your tracking better.
I mean, I'm, I would have been very lucky. I'd never had very big payout issues just because I think my name, uh, burdens weight in the industry and it's very effective, I think. So I think that's another reason that I never had a really big issue in payout besides that small, small, uh, issue with, uh, currency exchanges.
Josh Sebo: So Ian, I was actually going to ask, you mentioned the blog, and I know you're
Harrison Gevirtz: not asking me that question because we need another hour.
Josh Sebo: You mentioned, you mentioned the blog and I know you're, you're deep in the A4D life right now, but do you have anything else going on like outside of A4D that you're still really busy with or that you're passionate about?
Ian Fernando: not really. I still have my Amazon FBA stuff, my, some of my print on demand stuff, but they're pretty much all technically automated. Like, I don't even touch my Amazon FBA, uh, my VA does most of the work, I just fill up a credit card, uh, it gets shipped to a shipping center that ships to, uh, Amazon, right?
I mean, instead of making like the traditional 12% ROI, I'm now doing like 7 or 8, depending on the products, right? Uh, but also Amazon is also a different beast, it's just me arbitraging too, as well. Right. Um, the print on demand stuff, uh, also very automated. It's via Etsy, right? It's just super, super easy.
So not, no really big projects. A lot of my time is with, with a 4d strategizing and growing, growing publisher based, going up to revenue, things of that nature, but not actually working with JC closely on.
Josh Sebo: Yeah, Adam, right, right. As you got on, we were asking him what it was like working for Jason. Uh, do you have any questions for Ian about that or anything? Uh, anything else before we let him get out of here?
Ian Fernando: Hey guys, welcome to Luis Delgado's show. Today
Luis Delgado: We have Ian Fernando here live from Medellin. It has been a while since I've last had a, had a guest on the show. It's been about, I don't even know, maybe a year or two, yeah, because I've been working on this other podcast with, uh, my co host, but um, CEO of Ian Internet Media.
He's been in digital marketing space, media buyer, affiliate marketer for the past 15 years. I've been traveling the world about for about a decade, but I want to take it back to before you were a world traveler and international speaker and having your own company. Um, so right from the beginning, you know, what were you doing before you got into into business and traveling and, you know, well.
Well, there's a lot of stuff to start. So maybe we'll start off when I finished high school. We got
Ian Fernando: into college. I went to college for about two years, about three and a half years. My first year I got kicked, uh,
Luis Delgado: suspended for
Ian Fernando: my first semester for having a poor GPA. Because all I was doing was like hanging around with the white girls on campus.
And just, it's because I live in a very Asian household and I was away from my parents. And I was like, Oh my God, I have freedom. Alright, so I just did whatever I wanted. Didn't really care about my grades. The second semester I actually got kicked out because of fighting, right, but that was just an issue, right.
Then I went back to New Jersey,
Luis Delgado: um, and then I went to college there, Middlesex County College, a county college, and I
Ian Fernando: got kicked out my third year for fighting. So I went to school for two and a half years. Couldn't really get into the... education part of my career, right? I couldn't listen to somebody that taught me about business because I went to school for business information, but none of the professors actually spoke or had knowledge of having their own businesses.
So I'm like, Why am I listening to this person? So when I did that and I told my mom, I didn't want to go back to school. She's like, well, you need to either find, go back to school or find a place, a new place. I'm like, all right, let me just find a new place. So technically I got kicked out and I had to figure out how to survive.
So. Basically, I was working three jobs. I was a waiter on the weekends, a human resource manager during the day, and a call center agent at night, right? So, I probably only slept probably two to three hours a day, right? Um, and then I told myself, like, you know what? There has to be something that I need to do to just get rid of two jobs.
My goal wasn't really to be an entrepreneur, to be where I'm at today, to be a traveler. My goal was at that time to have just one job. And then I found internet marketing. I googled how to make money online. I made money through eBay. My first, uh, career. I did very, very well. Um, I started ordering items in bulk, selling things outside of Walmart, outside ShopRite, uh, in the streets after work.
And then I also, once I started making bulk money on eBay, I was able to just get rid of, uh, one job. But the issue with that... How do I, I couldn't really deal with customer service because I was still working the two jobs. I still didn't have time to do working with, uh, with the clients. So then I started Googling how to make money with, without customers,
Luis Delgado: without customers.
Ian Fernando: And then I found about affiliate marketing, media buying, and that's how I started buying ads on Google, buying ads on Facebook, uh, at that time, I was only buying ads on Google at that time, um, and I found affiliate marketing. Which then got me into an affiliate network and this affiliate network called Azuga back in the day, they're the one, they're responsible for jumpstarting my career, right?
I went from literally maybe 1, 000 a month to 1, 000 a week to pretty much 1, 000 a day, right? And that's pretty much how my career kind of started that path, right? There's a lot of things in between, like, there's a lot, it's like before, like, I, like, to survive in the hood, I had to like, Do a bunch of robberies.
but that's kind of stuff that, you know, happened to me. Like when I didn't have even free, when I didn't have wifi, I couldn't afford wifi. I saved money to buy a wireless repeater so I could put it on the edge of my window. And get a weak signal and get internet that way until I was able to afford a monthly, um, internet, like, so, yeah.
And so besides, uh,
Luis Delgado: you know, getting kicked out from home and all these schools, like, what, what was your drive, though, to, to just, like, besides that, to be, to get into business? Why not, you know, pursue something
Ian Fernando: else? Again, I didn't really understood anything about business. My goal was to get rid of two jobs and to get one job, right?
So eventually I Vonage, I went from call center agent. To, um, a, I forgot, like a school of call strategies where I had to figure out who had the fastest route, route call, but the cheapest route call, right? So it's all statistics. And then I realized to myself, if I were able to get rid of two jobs, can I get rid of this last job, right?
It was like a risk taker for me, a risk, risk, uh, issue for me. And I told myself, well, I have three months of worth of savings. So if I can replace this job within two months, then I'll continue. If not, then I'll find a job on the third month, right? Continue doing my job searching. And then when it's in my first month, I probably did my whole year's salary in one month.
Right. This is the first year. Yeah. My first time doing affiliate marketing. Right. And I was like, Oh, my God, this is awesome. This is great. So that's kind of how I got into it. And then over time, over time, I, over my career, I learned about it. Like, I learned how to do copy, create web design. I learned how to do more of the finance stuff, analytics, hiring, right?
Because eventually there's a lot of, uh, checkpoints in my life where I went from making things, 1, 000 a month to five figures a month to six figures, seven to eight, eight figures a month, right? So it's all throughout that time. I was always learning. So I never really wanted to get into business Entrepreneurship and affiliate marketing and media buying basically chose chose me.
Yeah, and did you know I mean at that
Luis Delgado: point like I'm sure there's somebody that Kind of helped you along the way. Is there was there anyone that or that you looked up to like, hey, there's that Yeah, he's into marketing, you know,
Ian Fernando: so back in the day, there was nobody like we have now, right? Because I started in 2002 full time 2004.
Um, Derek and Mike feel the same, you know, Russell Brunson, and um, Joel Kahn, like the old, old, old internet guys, old internet, old marketing guys, but on the internet, right? So like you have those legends for sure. Um, but there was nobody like me right at that time. So during that time I started creating, uh, I was using meetup.
com to find marketing meetups and that's how I started creating my circle, right? I started creating like, Oh, I want to meet people that do media buying on Google, Facebook. Plenty of fish, um, and then it's posted out there in public and eventually, uh, people in New Jersey that wanted to learn marketing or were into marketing or were just starting to marketing, just join my little meetup.
That's kind of who I learned from, but most of the time, 90% of the time I learned through mistakes, failure. Not the best way to learn. And that's how I learned. Failure. Yeah. So you were in New Jersey for a while and building this business
Luis Delgado: and, and, and. This community, right? Yeah, at what point
Ian Fernando: did you decide to
Luis Delgado: move or how did you start, you know, it sounds like you were probably one of the first ones started like working from home, you know, or like, and traveling that term didn't exist then, but you
Ian Fernando: know, I don't think it ever existed back in the day.
Right. I don't even think even remote work even existed back in the day. Right. So, I mean, this is 2004, 2005, 2006. We're in it with basically, let's see how old. Five, six, seven years old back then, right? Yeah. So everybody's still figuring it all out. It's like AI today.
Luis Delgado: Yeah,
Ian Fernando: exactly, exactly.
Luis Delgado: So, so what, what, what inspired you to move overseas or to start traveling?
Is it when you reached a certain
Ian Fernando: level of a success
Luis Delgado: that you, was it just out of boredom or out of like
Ian Fernando: to meet new people? So I think a little bit of mix out of boredom and I got tired. I needed to reset in my life, right? So I had a company in New Jersey or in Hoboken this time, um, we're doing amazing numbers, right?
Um, and one of the issues that I've hated was that when I became a C, when I was basically C level, which you technically just fall into the role of C level, it takes away, it takes you away from what you were doing, what you enjoyed. Me was looking at stats, looking at creatives, doing the ad, trying to trick people into buying, right?
That's what I enjoyed. But then, when I started having employees, I had to think about human research, I had to talk about people's payroll, I had to think about health benefits, their investment, they're all 401, I had to open banking, I had to open up more LLCs. I have to make sure there's no drama, who's having sex with who, like, these are the issues that having a company suck, and I hated it, and I got kind of burnt out, and two days before my birthday, uh, and before this time, I was traveling on and off, right, uh, but not full time, so, I walked into the office, and I basically told everybody, like, hey, Uh, the company's closing, um, take whatever you want in this office, right?
Because it's shutting down, right? Just like that. Yeah, just like that. And then that Friday was my birthday. We celebrate, I celebrate my birthday with my closest friend, my business partner. Yeah. And some employees. And that's Saturday or Sunday, one of those. I just flew to the Philippines and it took a year, year and a half off.
So that's how my travel, full time traveling kind of started. But I've been traveling on and off. Like my first, when I married me, my first. You know, a couple thousand dollars, uh, I went to Morocco, that's my first country, right? To solo? Yeah, just to, uh, just solo, right? But I was a cocky motherfucker back in the day, so that was a bad idea.
Luis Delgado: He said you were a cocky? Okay, yeah, all right. Well, I guess that's two questions. What changed that, cockiness, and then how
Ian Fernando: come the Philippines? So my cock is when you grew up in the hood and you don't have everything. Yeah. You want everything, right? Mm-hmm. . So for me is one, like I was a kid that when I would save my checks to buy the new Jordans, right?
So when I had, you know, a couple hundred K here, I would buy a watch. If I had another couple grand here, I'll buy a new car. No, I flew private. There are times where me and my business partner, we'd be like, Oh, we want real Italian pizza. We just took a private jet to Italy for a night, right? Oh, we want to go clubbing in 11 tonight.
We just took a jet to 11 for the night. We flew back the next day, right? And I was also so cocky that if I walked into the club and the tables were full, I would talk to the manager and be like, Hey, how much for this table? It's like, Oh, somebody has to have it. Well, I'm like, I'm asking how much for this table.
How much can I add more? Like, Oh, if you want to take it, it'll be another 5k. I'm not going to get done. You, the manager would come in, pick these people out and I would have my table. That's how cocky I was. Like there's instances of me talking to a bouncer like, Motherfucker, I've been waiting in line, like, let me in, right?
Um, do you know who the fuck I am? You know, I make your salary. I just made your salary. Mootly, let me in, right? Yeah, that's
Luis Delgado: how bad I was. Yeah, that was bad. I was, I was, I was
Ian Fernando: bad. Oh man. And then the cockiness stopped because I went into depression twice, right? And my first depression was... When I bought a house, uh, because everybody in the industry at this time, we're young people, and everybody was buying houses.
So I'm like, I can buy a house too. Like, I can flex my money too, right? Um, so I bought a house. Uh, and then probably like a year into it, I was losing like 7k a day, right? And I was like, Oh man, what's going on? And then I, I was asking myself, would this work? Did I get into this industry by mistake? Was it by luck?
Did I have, do I actually have skill? I started questioning myself about these things. Like, did I just get into the right moment? During the internet to make easy money, right? Because at that time, you throw up an ad, you made money. That's how easy it was. Like literally, like I was doing ringtones, literally printing money.
You can just throw money at the wall and for some reason it just turned to gold, right? It turned into shit, right? So, it was easy to make money back in the day. Nowadays, it's still easy to make money, uh, but you have to be more and more strategic, right? And this is where my first depression I realized.
Okay, I need to just focus on what I know, what this marketing taught me and see if I can expand out. Right. And it's the reason why I have like these tattoos on here. Love life, right? Just so it reminds me all the time. And my second depression was, uh, when I got another house. You got another one?
Luis Delgado: Yeah.
Ian Fernando: Uh, in South Jersey.
And then I was, at that time, I was trying to make a software company. Right. And then I was struggling to do so and I went to my parents like, oh man, I don't think I'll be able to pay rent, uh, or my, my mortgage, right? And my mom's like, well, you can't come here because you shouldn't be moving, you shouldn't be moving backwards.
I'm like, fuck, that makes so much sense. But damn, I hate you for not allowing me back in the house.
Luis Delgado: Right. Right? Your mom said that?
Ian Fernando: Yeah. Most moms I feel like would say, right? Come on, honey, I miss you. Kiss. I like, no, you're moving backwards. Like, you're fucking up. I'm like, damn, she's right. Right. So within three months, um, I was able to repay the mortgage and I worked a deal with the bank.
Um, and then it all worked out. So we just need to add a little harsh push sometimes. So would you say that
Luis Delgado: what made your cockiness go away is like. Almost the moment of having it all over the night. Yeah. That, you realize how, like...
Ian Fernando: It's not even that, I think it's like, I realize that, dude, I treat people, I treat people like shit.
Right? Yeah, like, when you, when you, when you're depressed, when you're depressed, you start thinking about, Why am I here? Uh, am I worth it? Do I have skills? Am I good at what I do? What led me to this? Right? You start asking all these weird questions, and then I found out it's just my attitude, right? And then once I started to become more humble, like, things just slowly built up, right?
Would you say,
Luis Delgado: I mean, I see that a lot with people, especially like, you know, people that knew money, right? Yeah. And then they didn't grow up with money, didn't have money, had to work hard for it. A lot of times they want to spend it, you know, on materialistic things, cars, houses, and then at some point... At some point, hopefully, most people probably realize that that's not work.
I agree. That's not work. Most of your happiness comes from this. Maybe it adds to it, but it's
Ian Fernando: not everything. It makes life easier, right? I mean, for sure money makes things easier. I don't think it, I mean it doesn't make, I mean, I am pretty happy in my Porsche, right? Or my Lambo when it happens, right? You know, um, But at the day, like, Like right now, I'm just simple.
I don't even have a watch on, I don't have my chains on. I realized after traveling so for so many years, so many times, like when I was in. They're making it public. Like, people are happy, right? Just like, talking to you. I'm like, why is this person happy when they know they're broke? Right? But, it's that thing, that simplicity makes things happier.
So you've learned that in the
Luis Delgado: years that you were traveling to these
Ian Fernando: different countries? Yeah, prior to my full time. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. It definitely hit me more. Like, when I sold a car, when I walked into the office and told everybody we're closing down. And I took a year off. It definitely hit me more because like in the Philippines, I would play, uh, basketball with my cousin and I would have Jordans on, right?
And he was playing flip flops and, and his friend would play with no flip flops. I'm like, dude, I'm so ashamed. Like, I'm embarrassed that I don't even want to play with y'all, right? But they're happy, right? And it's crazy to me that they don't have the basics, but yet they were able to play and enjoy themselves all together.
Right. So during that time, I traveled for sure. My first two years, I realized a lot more stuff for sure, but I knew this before, but. I just wanted to act like a boss. I would be the guy on Instagram, like at the airport, look at this fucking, look at these peasants. Right? like fucking pendants in the fucking, and they have to wait for the, wait for their fucking seats.
Yeah. I'm like, in first class, I'm like, they calling me a priority. I'm like, yeah. Like I fucking peasants. . You're upload. Yeah. On Instagram. Right? My sister would get so super mad about about that for sure. But yeah, that's not me anymore. Well, sometimes.
Do you have any, is there anything that you learned from, from, from being, it sounds like you're two different
Luis Delgado: people. Was there, were there pros and cons? I mean, were there
Ian Fernando: pros to being like that at all? Yeah, you, you're, you're super confident, right? You grow your confidence a lot, right? You know how to talk and you get what you want.
That brings, that brings the attitude in sales. Like when you want to create deals. Your cockiness helps, right, for sure. Because it's tied to some level of confidence. Yeah, no, it's like confidence. Like, yeah, dude, I know what I want. Like, just give it to me, right? But I can say, oh, there's, uh... So now,
Luis Delgado: where does that come from, if you're not
Ian Fernando: cocky anymore?
Luis Delgado: Now, if you're not that anymore, where does that same confidence come from?
Ian Fernando: Well, it's still in me, right? I'm very confident in what I have. So, but I'm not, I'm not cocky. But if there's a deal that I want, I'll act cocky. I'll do like, you probably know this, I'll do something close. Where I'm like, oh yeah, the inbox.
Let me know when you send it to your account. I'm ready to start. That's not something close. That's cockiness. Right. But in a subtle way. Right. So that's because in sales or in marketing, if you're, if you're going to read a terms of service and be like, Oh, we can't do this. Then that kills your creativity.
Right. So cockiness is not like, like I'm still confident and I know what I'm doing. Yeah. Right. Like, but I'm also humbled. Now, right, but if I'm in the club and I can't get in, I won't be like, yo, what, how much that table has kicked these motherfuckers out. I'm not that person anymore. I'm like, oh, let's go, let's go to another club.
So that's, that's where it changes. I mean. Yeah. I mean, I think it's crazy how sometimes you have to go through dark moments
Luis Delgado: just to get
Ian Fernando: to that, that side. Yeah. The other side of things. Well, yeah, I mean, I think the difference nowadays is that... Because you still make the money. Yeah. And, but it's just the way you see things changing.
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think the difference is that I have compound experience, whereas nowadays... People gain experience through YouTube, right? Like, I didn't know anything about financial education. Yeah. My parents only taught me how to save money, right? That doesn't do anything, right? Now, I had to hire a lawyer, CPA, tax attorney, right?
But people can get all that through the internet now, right? Which is, that's why a lot of people now are more financial savvy than anything, than when I was back in the day. Like, nobody's gonna buy a fucking quarter million watch. Tell them, hey, I bought a quarter million watch. Yeah. Right?
Luis Delgado: You're like thinking back.
Um, tell me about, so you were traveling, you know, a couple of years and then you, so then when you got back into business, what, what were, what were, what was your, uh, your plan then, you know, and then how did that ultimately lead to
Ian Fernando: being here today? So I think when I traveled and I took a year off, I wanted to get away.
I wanted to figure out who I was, right. Because being. Being a C level is not fun because you have to be responsible for people, not your company. Well, you have to be responsible for your company, which includes people, right? You're not responsible for yourself anymore, right? So you can't be selfish, right?
Um, so I didn't like that, right? And the craziest part is, like, before even that, I sold, uh, two companies, uh, before that. And just two years ago, I just sold another company, right? And they, the two other ones before 2013, um, I had my biggest employee list was probably 25, right? But I had somebody else take care of that, right?
Whereas me, when I owned my own stuff, I had to make sure everybody was good, everybody got paid right, right? Everybody had to know drama. But, I think... For me, I wanted to understand that what I wanted, did I want to make companies or do I just want to run, uh, affiliate campaigns, right? I'd rather be a one man show and have virtual assistant than have, uh, employees under me, right?
Because I'm responsible for my own income, right? Because the income in the company, I'm responsible for the revenue coming in to give to my employees, right? Let me talk to you. I have to make sure of KPIs. My KPIs aren't being hit and I get annoyed because I, I got to yell at employees, like, do I want to do that?
No, I don't know. It's, it's a weird dynamic. Right? I would rather just buy ads for myself. And if I don't make money, I don't make money. That's my fault. Right? Whereas if the company doesn't make money, then I can't pay employees. That's a heavy burden on me. I didn't want it. Got it. So you started to design your life in the way that you thought was best for you.
Yeah, correct. Yeah.
Luis Delgado: And that was not having as much responsibility, but just focusing on a few clients. Um, and, and was that at that point also, were you thinking at that point, I also want to keep living overseas and work as, allowing you to work, you know, as least possible to make, and still make a lot of money?
Yeah. Or were you still like... Working a shit ton and trying to make a lot of money, even as a one man show. Oh
Ian Fernando: man, no, I wasn't. So, once you hit, once you hit like a million, and you do eight, you're like, eh, they're different between one and, uh, seven and eight figures. Like, there's really not a big difference, right?
So then, I was like, okay, do I just want to make X amount of money per month? And just enjoy my life. Sure. I can do that because overseas is cheap, right? Right. I can control that variable, right? If I really want to make ends, I can, I can do it, right? But then that sacrifice my time, my freedom, my travel time, right?
Or do I just want to make a couple thousand dollars a month? So I can full time travel, full time read and write, all that stuff. But I realized that I want to be overseas probably four years into my travel, and probably three years into my travel. I was in Vietnam, and I really love Vietnam. And I think for me, once I understood how cheap it was, I was like, why would anybody want to live over, why would anybody want to live in the U.
S.? It took you that many years to, for that to put. Yeah, you know, and I started to think, figuring out how to, You might, well, we had taxation strategies overseas in Singapore and Hong Kong, but now it's like, okay, how do I do it for myself now? Because that, those entities were for the company, right? Huge corporations.
Yeah, exactly. So now it's like, how do I restructure it? Like right now I'm trying to figure out a little restructure for, for what I'm doing now, because this year I did very, very well, right? So now I'm trying to restructure it again. So I think it took me like three, four years to figure out, oh, I definitely want to be overseas just because.
Like lifestyle overseas is far better. What's better about it? I mean food access is far cheaper You can choose your climate. You can choose your your environment. You can choose your city, right? Like i'm moving to brazil next month And I'm going to Sao Paulo. Sao Paulo reminds me of New York, right? It has Japan town, it has German town, Italian town, Korean town, right?
The diversity is there, right? I guess those other ones as well. I thought that
Luis Delgado: was mainly just Japan. I mean, I saw Japan.
Ian Fernando: Town. Yeah, they're all, they're all out there. Yeah.
Luis Delgado: He said they're all
Ian Fernando: out there. Yeah, just imagine talking to a Japanese girl with a big booty. Like that's, that's crazy. In Brazil. In Brazil, yeah.
They're a mix. Yeah, they're a mix, right? And the other thing is you'll realize that people overseas, right, they enjoy being who they are, like Colombians, right? When you're in the U. S., There's this issue, like, we have an identity issue, right? So, everybody's like, oh, I want to protect my Mexican heritage.
Okay, cool. Right? That's awesome. Yeah, do that. Right. I want to protect my Indian heritage, but when it's a crossover, right, they're like, Oh, your culture appropriation like no motherfucker sharing my culture. Right. You don't understand that and it isn't what is the issue they have with. A lot of, uh, U. S. uh, what is U.
S. mostly? We have an identity crisis. We don't, we don't, we want to stay super, super, um, we purposely segregate ourselves. Like, we want to be Mexican and keep the Mexican community because we want to keep it. I'm like, cool, but then why are you sharing your topics with white people? Right? And the white people can't, like, be part of your barbecue, right?
When they go to your barbecue and then they try to take some of your traditions. And to share your recipe, just quote, quote, culture appropriation, right? Like what the hell? Yeah. Right? That's why it's called a melting pot. Right? But for some reason, we don't want to get into the pot, we just don't want to be segmented before getting into the pot.
Like oil and water. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, no, for sure, man.
Luis Delgado: I think that's, I'm Mexican, Salvadorian, and American,
Ian Fernando: so I feel like I'm
Luis Delgado: split in different ways. But I think in the U. S., it's just. I don't want to say it's kind of been designed that way, but historically, we've been segregated. So I think it's just kind of played today.
It's changing now a
Ian Fernando: bit, but... No, back in the day when I grew up, everybody was all about each other. Yeah. Like, in the hood, like everybody was all about, oh yeah, you know, let's, let's do that. Bring your, your Jewish friends here, you know, and now you get offended because people make a simple joke or, you know, they talk about whatever.
Right. Right. But... It's just a macro version of your culture, so why can't I talk about it? Yeah. That's just an issue. I think what I was gonna, I
Luis Delgado: don't remember, I think you mentioned the word sensitive. I feel like people in the U. S. are just sensitive in general, just because they haven't had it hard. Which is a whole different topic, I know, but it's like...
Yeah, I can get it, yeah. Too
Ian Fernando: bad, people are so soft, man. Yeah, they are. Well, the thing is, for example, my generation, my friend, they overlook their kids, right? Yeah. And I'm like, dude, let your daughter trip. Like, do you want me to trip her? Like, I'll trip her. Let me trip her. Right? So you don't feel bad. Yeah, I don't feel bad.
And the reason why, because... Like, you go to these schools, public schools, like, every kid's allergic, right? They're allergic to breathing, like, they fucking have, you know, all that shit. Like, when I grew up, like, we're going to the night climbing, building tree houses, doing bike, literally, probably trying to get ourselves killed on purpose, right?
But, that's because we were kids. Now... You can't even be a kid and enjoy the true value of exploration, true value of creativity, true value of, uh, self and the true value of like, you know, curiosity. Now you don't have it because you have somebody telling you that, oh, the internet says this, watch out, you can't be out at 6pm because, you know, the sun's too dark and I can't see you.
I'm like, what? Who cares? Your kid needs to be lost, right? That's, that's, the issue is... That there's so much information now that it created fear. Back in the day, there was no information, right? Limited access to information that there was fear, but there was still, uh, okay, just be careful. Type out it, right?
Right now, it's just so much information that we hear is a one negative issue. Probably 1% in your community and everybody's like, Oh my God, what's going on? That's another issue. Yeah, topic for another
Luis Delgado: day. Definitely, that's another podcast. For sure. So taking it back. Um, you were creating this new business, like, not business, but just creating in a way that made sense for you, where you're able to travel, meet new people.
Um, you did that for, what, four or five
Ian Fernando: years? Yeah, another four years, yeah, in years. Yeah, got it.
Luis Delgado: So this is where, this is where it gets you to today, right? Yeah. Being in the same space. Yep. Just had some exits, well, in the process. Yeah. Um. So what would you say is that like, I mean, for some people that are watching, I mean, there's some people that are probably business owners themselves or trying to get into business, you know, what, what's, I guess, what's one thing that made, made you successful versus all the other hundreds of thousands of people have tried it and they just haven't been
Ian Fernando: able to succeed.
I think you have to understand yourself, right? Because this, this question changes a lot for me sometimes, right? There's, there's a lot of people that get into business and then they try it for two, three, four, five years, but they have not been able to make a dollar. My message to you is like, dude, find another fucking venue.
Like, like, I, the example I use, like, okay, you're trying to go to the NBA, right? But you're saying your parents are pushing you like, oh, you're good. You're good people telling you you're good. But you have to realize yourself that you suck, right? Like. You realize, oh, I'm a far better sprinter, right, because I can go up to court far faster than anybody else on the court.
Once you realize that skill and take that and maybe like, oh, maybe I need to go to a track or track, track and field instead, right? Or, uh, soccer or football, right? Because that they value more in sprint game to run game than basketball, right? So once you realize your true self, I think it's important that, uh, you can move on or pivot.
Like with me, I realized that I don't, I don't want to be a C level, right? I don't want to be a CEO. Took me away from my skill, right? Which is media buying, creativity, creating an ad, creating an angle, doing landing pages, picking people in the buy, right? Things of that nature, right? So I think if you're, know who you are.
Um, and know when to stop and know that you cannot, you cannot progress anymore from where you're at. Then you can pivot to another, a new position, new role, new idea, right, new business, and go from there. It's funny and amazing how a lot of people say,
Luis Delgado: kind of what you just said, it's like, knowing thyself, right?
It's like, it seems to be like the answer to... To a lot of your problems and a lot of like clarity, just getting to know who you are and what you want. I
Ian Fernando: mean, I mean, I think it's really important because I, I know friends that are trying to do things in the affiliate space, but they've been doing it for six, seven years.
And when you're in the affiliate space and you can't even like, you can at least open an ad on TikTok right now and make your first dollar, right? And then are you able to make 1 turn to 100? That's the skill there, right? So if you realize you can do that, then maybe that is for you. But if you can, and you can be like, dude, I suck at this.
I can't do it. And you know, you have to understand like, oh man, I'm not good at coming up with angles. I'm not good with coming up with a perfect optimized landing page. I'm not good at ad copy. I'm not good at, um, coming up with, uh, testing page ideas, right? And there's a lot of guys that are coming to marketing.
That definitely, man, it's, it's, and.
Luis Delgado: And that's just like the affiliate, right? I mean, there's Google ads, there's TikTok
Ian Fernando: ads, Facebook ads, you have Snapchat, you have Pinterest ads, like you can advertise on Quora, advertise on Twitter, right? There's so many places to advertise. You have OTT now, YouTube, YouTube Shorts.
Like I've advertised, I mean you can advertise on Reddit, there's so many places to advertise. If Taboola is Outbrain native, there's... Man, I'm sure there's going to be a way
Luis Delgado: to advertise in the VR, in the virtual reality as well. Oh yeah,
Ian Fernando: I'm pretty sure they already have something like that out there. It has fast forward already?
I'm pretty sure. I'd want to see that. I'm pretty sure they have something out there already for that. That'd be insane. Yeah. But it's coming, I'm sure. Of course. Um, what...
Luis Delgado: So I guess what practical advice do you have for someone that, um, I guess, I mean, I guess she already
Ian Fernando: kind
Luis Delgado: of
Ian Fernando: answered that. Let me think of another question.
I just scratched that one.
Luis Delgado: Um, so we're here today. So now, so now where, where are you, where are you trying to go now? Like what's, so that's interesting because you've been successful, you know, the past 15 years had some custom exits. Um, you know, and design a whole new business model where you're the one in charge and you're only responsible for yourself.
Ian Fernando: now what? Like, I don't know. What do you do? Like,
Luis Delgado: at this point, like money is just like, you know, it's nice, but like you said, you don't necessarily want, it's not, it's not going to make you
Ian Fernando: more happier. Yeah. Well, everybody in Michigan is a family. I'm like,
Luis Delgado: I don't know about all that.
Ian Fernando: Yeah. Um, I don't know.
So I started consulting two years ago during COVID, hoping to get ideas from CEOs. Right. Um, I still haven't found the perfect idea, but there's one company I consult for inviting me to be, uh, almost like a VP of their agency. Right. And I took this position because. Maybe I need to get back into a work environment with teams.
Working solo is awesome, but I'm not a very extrovert person, so for me, like, I need to talk to people. So, being put in this new position where I'm in now, managing people in the direction I want to go. Instead of trying to manage the creative team as a team, you know, everything now I have directors, team leads, and employees, and then obviously the bare bone employees, right?
I don't know if that's good to say. Right. So, but now I'm in this position where maybe it will help me explore the management lifestyle a little bit, right, in a proper way where I have proper structures. Because before being a CEO, we didn't really have a director, right? So everybody technically reported to me and my other two business partners at that time.
Right? So it got too much compounded. And that was back in the day where, you know, just running a company was the first time. Boom, boom, boom, boom. It was just like, oh, I don't think we need a director. Why do we need a director, right? It just costs money, right? Uh, but now I'm in a proper company where I can drive vision and drive results because I have structure, right?
So I don't know where version three of me might be going, right? But hopefully this new position that I'm in now is will bring me to a point of, you know, probably Good happiness challenge of proper challenges. I need like what happens is you get bored. I get bored. I get bored to making money, right? Good problem, right?
Yes, sir. Like, like I can throw up an ad and make money, right? Um, it's just easy for me. So now I just need a challenge. Hopefully with a 4d just new network I'm working with. Um, it allowed me to have proper challenges, team vibes, drive my vision, drive structure, drive revenue in a way that I probably haven't done properly before, right?
Because I probably did it inaccurately back in the day, just now have more proper structure. So we'll see where that goes, but obviously I don't know where the end goal is. I tend not to think too far ahead of time. I'm more of a present, present person type person. So, yeah.
Luis Delgado: Gotcha. And that sounds like that's going to, you're going to start doing that from Brazil until, yeah, I guess you're going to decide how long you stay out there or why, why, why are you picking this part out?
Exactly. Got it. You know, one thing I do like about what you said is like that you get
Ian Fernando: bored, you get bored, right? When
Luis Delgado: you're good at something. And I think life in general, like things that are most worthwhile are things that challenge us, you know, if you don't have a challenge or some sort of struggle, healthy struggle, or even bad struggle, it just, It's almost like you need to struggle in life for you to value it, for it to be good once you do achieve certain things, right?
But it's also at the same time being aware that, you know, once you reach those goals, like it's just, it's a temporary feeling, right? It's not going to maintain there forever, right? You're always going to roll and fade. More, uh, you know, different or more, more challenges.
Ian Fernando: Well, yeah, and that's why like kids nowadays should like go to the hood and get beat up on purpose.
Yeah, like, oh, I know how this feels. Okay, let's let me, let me not do this. I mean, So this is an action because nowadays when people fail in marketing or in their business, they think it's Somebody else's fault. It's the program's fault. It's Facebook's fault. But they don't understand, like, uh, maybe you don't have the skill.
Maybe you just suck at it. Or maybe you're not looking at a problem the right way. Or maybe you need to approach it in the wrong way. Like, there's a lot of thought process when you have a business. Right. Gotcha. All
Luis Delgado: right, well look, I'm gonna, before we wrap up, I'm gonna ask you like, I think two more questions.
They're gonna be pretty random. Um,
Ian Fernando: best place you've been to world like that you felt like, I
Luis Delgado: guess, man, I inspired,
Ian Fernando: I really love Vietnam. Vietnam is a perfect combination of, if I want to, if I wanted to categorize middle class, Vietnam would be middle class. I don't believe in in rich, I don't believe in middle class.
I always believe there's rich and poor, black and white ones and zeros. Right. Um, but Vietnam has a perfect medium of like, just upcoming, structurally developed, good food, people are nice, right? And it's just an amazing vibe there, right, for me. So I think Vietnam is, is an amazing, amazing spot for me. I thought I was going to actually live there.
Man, you just, I mean, I've always
Luis Delgado: wanted to go to Vietnam, been to Asia, but not Vietnam. I think that's going to. If you're going out there next year, let me know, man. It'd be cool to visit. Um, but for the last question, um, it's... Out of all the things you've done up
Ian Fernando: to today, what would you say that you're most proud of?
I think my most proud moment
Luis Delgado: is when people ask
Ian Fernando: me to do something that I didn't think I would be good at, right? And by that, I mean like, for example, when I get clients, I don't go out to get clients. People refer them to me. My first speaking gig? I thought I didn't know. I was a beginner in marketing.
Somebody thought that, Oh, you actually know what you're talking about. I want you to speak. Right? Um, I think that that I think that chain of events where people will see value in me by just me giving value, I think is important because I'll add on to that because my speaking engagements, it was very, very random.
I never saw myself a speaker. I didn't. I was probably my second year full time in the affiliate industry. And Sean Collins from affiliate Song, uh, asked me to speak at Bo at the Boston event. Mm-hmm. . And I was like, sure enough, prepping my cards. And, and I'm like, dude, I never saw myself as a speaker, but over time it count compounded that I knew what I, I was talking about, but I became speakers internationally and I just came back from California speaking at a private mastermind event.
Mm-hmm. , right. And, um, Yeah, I think when people see value, they want to, you know, take advantage of the value and they want to use it, right, to provide value elsewhere with clients. Again, I don't have to go seek out clients, right? Just clients seek out to me and they're paying five to six figures a month, right?
So, yeah. Awesome. And where can people find you? Uh, you can find me at ianfernando. com or ianfernando. com forward slash social, right? But mainly ianfernando. com. Got it. Well, man, it was great to have you on the
Luis Delgado: show today, man.
Ian Fernando: Thank you, brother. Thank you.
Being a digital nomad can seem like a dream. You have the freedom to live in any country you want, work a few hours here or there, explore wondrous places and cultures, and then move on to a new country whenever you want. I wanted to go all-in with our businesses and have more freedom in my life.
Here is the reason why being a Digital Nomad is good and why I chose it:
At first, I planned to stay as a digital nomad for around 1 year, but I ended up extending my travels for another 8 years because I enjoyed it so much. The culture, the food, the people, and the exploration. It was such a great experience, I loved every aspect of it.
Then 8 years later, I have seen most of Asia and felt I needed a base, a place I can call home after being gone for so long. I really never had a base - a place I can call home, I had an Airbnb. I never enjoyed booking a new Airbnb, or saying I missed my Airbnb. It never felt like home.
However, every lifestyle has its pros and cons, and for me, one of the biggest cons was not being able to see my family and friends for long periods of time. I would miss big events like birthdays and weddings. New friend relationships are a handshake and a goodbye.
I didn't mind making new friends, I am naturally an extrovert but relationships seem to always reset in every country I am in.
It was also a lot of work, from researching places to booking flights and hotels to travel planning. It could be quite taxing, especially since I had to start over every time I arrived in a new location. Maintaining good habits and routines was also challenging, and towards the end, I became a little numb to the amazing experiences we were having because it had become the norm for me.
Eventually, I did things on the go, I felt more comfortable just doing things on the fly and not overthinking, enjoying the present time and day vs. stressing over tomorrow. Though being a digital nomad is great, there are flaws, and I even mentioned a couple above.
Here are some reasons why being a digital nomad was hitting a toll on me:
Each of these bullets has a solution. In isolation, I tend to go to meetups, go out, and keep meeting people randomly. I am very extroverted and enjoy people, even if the language barrier is very high. It is about absorbing experiences and having a very open mind about life and your environment.
In the end, I loved my time as a digital nomad, but I was ready to move on to the next chapter and have Sao Paulo, Brazil as my real home base. I still want the freedom to travel as much as possible, and Brazil was a good choice, it is a huge country.
Here it reminds me of New York and how fast it moves. The diversity of food and the ease of access to natural food is a huge priority for me. The other thing that makes Brazil attractive to me is the fact it is huge. A country as massive as Brazil still allows me the freedom of travel, but without the aspect of travel.
I can plan with friends, and not have to reset a relationship. I can just pick a flight and go and not really plan. I do not have to think about visas or paperwork needed for entry.
The fact Sao Paulo reminds me of New York feels like home. It has the vibe of New York with the people diversity, Amazon and online deliveries, amazing restaurants, etc. I fell in love after 2 weeks of visiting last year. I plan on staying for 2 years full-time and seeing if it is the perfect fit for me.
For me, what's most important is the freedom to choose how I live my life. Whether being a digital nomad is worth it or not depends on your personal values and goals. It's not as glamorous as it can seem, but if you have realistic expectations and know what you want to get out of it, it can be an incredible experience.
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Rohail Rizvi: welcome to the Nomadic Millionaire Podcast, where we dive deep into the world of digital nomads, online entrepreneurs, and location-independent living. I'm your host, bro Rizvi, and today we have an exciting guest joining us. Ian Fernando, a successful internet marketer and entrepreneur. Known for his insightful strategies and innovative approaches.
We'll be discussing his journey in the world of internet marketing, his tips for aspiring entrepreneurs and his experiences as a digital nomad. So let's get started. Welcome to the show, Ian.
Ian Fernando: Hey, thanks for having me. I appreciate it, man. It's been a long time since we last talked.
Rohail Rizvi: It has, it has, man. I'm glad we were able to connect.
It's been a minute for sure. So yeah, so it's great having you on the show. Appreciate you coming on. And to start things off, can you share a bit about your background and how you got into internet marketing?
Ian Fernando: Yeah, sure. I've been online roughly about 15 plus years, right? I started mainly on eBay selling, reselling stuff online.
Then eventually got into affiliate marketing. And then most of my career, about 90% of my career is in media buy and affiliate marketing. Pretty much got started by accident. Didn't really want to be an entrepreneur or affiliate marketer, or whatever you call this scenario, right? In my life I basically just wanted to get rid of three jobs.
Actually I just wanna get rid of two out of three jobs. That was kind of my goal. And then eventually I was like, well, if I was able to get rid of two, can I get rid of the last one? Mm-hmm. And I probably had like three months of savings. And I took the risk of like, okay, let me just go hard into affiliate marketing and see if I can at least, you know, make my monthly salary.
And then I think after, within a month and a half, I did like my whole year's salary. In that two months time. And then eventually I was like, all right, I think this is real, this can do it. And then I think affiliate marketing was for me and ever since, oh, that was it, you know?
Rohail Rizvi: Wow. A month and a half.
That's pretty good to replace an entire salary and let alone you went from three jobs to where you're at now, which is pretty, pretty impressive. Yep. That's pretty awesome, man. And so would you say like, As someone who's achi achieved a lot of success in this field, what, what would you say is the most important skill or mindset that has contributed to your
Ian Fernando: success?
Oh man. I think I think this changes over time just because I guess it's based on the framing of the question. I think at that point in my career or that time when I was really just a drop outta college, my parents kicked me out. I think for me it was just survival, right? And trying to just make as much money as I can just be to be able to eat the next day, right?
Mm-hmm. So for me, at that time, it was more like, oh, I have to make money, or I have to do this, I have to do that, right? So at that point in my life was more of the survivals mentality where I needed to do this, I needed to do that. What the shortcut to do this, right? Mm-hmm. Even like back in the day, like when I got my apartment, I couldn't afford like internet, right?
So what I did was like, okay, let me save up money by a wifi repeater. Right? See if I can find any, anybody that has an open wifi network and repeated that signal into my apartment. Right? That's crazy. So that's how I got the, the internet in my, in my apartment. Right. So I think back in the days more like, where are the shortcuts?
What can I do right now? I think that mindset of like. My back was against the wall. I had nothing to do. I had nothing to lose for. Like, I think that mindset, just like pushing and surviving, was that mentality back then. Now it's definitely more of like my happiness mindset, like, okay, am I happy doing this?
Am I happy doing that? Am I satisfied? If I am satisfied, that means I'm not doing fairly good. It all really depends, right? But if you're starting out and if you are struggling, then I think survival mentality is super, super important because it just creates this creativity in your head. And I think eventually that turned to a benefactor for me because creativity and marketing is very, very important.
Rohail Rizvi: Totally. Yeah, I definitely get that. I think especially as an entrepreneur, I think you have that extra fire under you when you have to make it work or else like you'll be out on the street or something. Like I think that extra little bit of motivation is actually, when you look back in hindsight, it was actually what got you to success versus what if you have like an easy fallback, like a job you could always go back to.
It's a lot less pressure and a, and in a way it's a less. Less chances of succeeding unless you're like super disciplined and, and, you know, put in that work. So in ways, in some ways it is an advantage.
Ian Fernando: Yeah, I mean, it all really, really depends. I think back in the day, it's just, it was easy to make money, but also difficult as minority and being first generation too. So a lot of pressure from family and parent versus. Now there's like two generations now I think that are living a pretty good American style dream.
There's no pressure, there's no bad feedback. There's, I mean, there's a lot of stuff happening that can be very, very beneficial for entrepreneurs right now. I mean, even back in the day, I didn't even wanna be an entrepreneur. I just needed to like get rid of my job, right. Oh, that's
Rohail Rizvi: crazy. No, I get that. And I think yeah, and being an entrepreneur as a minority is, is a little bit different as well.
It's, it presents different challenges sometimes and you know, a different set of motivation sometimes too, in terms of like, I. You have an extra reason to, to move your place in society sometimes, but now let's talk about that's great advice by the way. I would really like to talk to you about your experiences as digital nomad because you've been traveling and living around the world for a long time now.
Probably over 10 years. So how did you make the decision to live and work remotely and how has this lifestyle impacted your
Ian Fernando: career? Yeah. So I've been always wanting to travel. I guess traveling had been part of my blood since I was a young kid. 'cause my parents would always drive to the next state over, right?
Mm-hmm. So I guess that adventure it part of my brother and my sister and me. I guess my first, my first country I went to is Panama. And then my first real overseas, I wanna say is Morocco. And in the past eight years, I've been traveling consistently from country to country. So I think my last eight years have been truly a digital about, and my decision to do that is just more so like, I think when you reach a point of money, you're always asking what's next?
Right? And you're always like, oh, what is, what is next for me? How do other people see their life? And you want a different perspective, right? So America, Eastern Europe, they all have certain perspective. But then you go to Thailand, you go to Columbia, you go to Brazil, they have different perspective of life, food, culture, and that's very, very interesting to me.
And what I've learned is taking some of these experiences and it's thinking like, oh, why isn't it here in America? Why doesn't it apply in Eastern Europe? Why is it so difficult in America? Why is it accepted here? Right? So you see a lot of these perspective, which makes me, which can make open your mind a lot more.
It also helps a lot with business as well too. Creativity part too, again, right. But getting into it, I think it would just be part of my blood. Again, my parents traveled from state to state and I was just super, super careers. Oh. And I remember my dad always, always telling me tra traveling stories, like he was showing pictures from Egypt.
So that curiosity was always there for me. I think.
Rohail Rizvi: Nice. That's awesome man. It's really good to get that inspiration at at a young age. I think it can really shape your, the way you see the world, the way you pursue your career. So that's, that's pretty awesome. And so like for our listeners who are maybe considering the digital nomad lifestyle or even perhaps being more stationary, expat, like maybe you are now well, I wouldn't call you stationary, but you still traveling within where you are.
But what tips would you give them to, to help
Ian Fernando: them succeed to like get into digital med?
Rohail Rizvi: Just to, yeah, just to succeed as a, a digital nomad
Ian Fernando: entrepreneur specifically. Okay. I think one thing is like, if you're curious, right, at Nomad, I think it's important to maybe start off in a country where it's probably low, low expenses.
Like I know I meet a lot of entrepreneurs or entrepreneurs in Columbia, a lot more freelancers in Columbia Valley. Thailand, Philippines for sure. And to succeed, I think it's just spend the time to focus, like sit down, take the next three months, really, really dive in. Yeah. And then try to use your spare time to explore.
But I think that would be the best scenario. But the other scenario, which speaking like a travel event of the Columbia like a couple months ago, is to always have an open mind. Never. If you're traveling, I would never YouTube the bad things. I would always YouTube the good things of the country.
Right? Because then what happens is you set these expectations in your head, like, oh, I'm about to get drugged. And then you're always scared, right? And sure, when you only Google or YouTube, like the good things you look forward to, the good things, right? But what you do for the bad things, you're like, you're looking forward to it, you're expecting it, and eventually you're gonna get drugged.
Rohail Rizvi: It's just how it works. You know? Be careful what you consume. Yeah, no, honestly, like I've been to all those places like Columbia, like and, and you know, I had no fear going through those places years ago. But now there's like so much content. A lot of it's like fear content on YouTube. And even as someone who's traveled, you get a little bit.
Concerned thinking, Hey, it is just, it's just all out people getting drugged all the time. So it doesn't mean you shouldn't, you know, be aware of your surroundings and be a smart traveler, but, you know, don't let it keep you from exploring and seeing other parts of the world.
Ian Fernando: Agreed. Agreed. I think it's important to like have, it's, it's good to be informed for sure.
I wouldn't be consumed about it. Like I have a friend that travels and all he does is look for the badges. So he's scared. But then your energy that you give off while you're walking, like, dude, you like to become a target where you're like seeing these things, right. It's not
Rohail Rizvi: good. Right. It definitely makes a difference.
Yeah. Would you say would you tell aspiring digital nomad entrepreneurs to. Travel or a lot, or would you say in hindsight it would've been better not to travel as much and stay in one place for
Ian Fernando: business? Okay, so I've done this in my first two years, full-time. I spent probably two weeks to 30 days in each country and moved around, and then eventually after two years or maybe a year and a half, my goal was to stay the extension of the visa, whether it be 30 days.
Three months or six months, then explore. Right. And the reason for this is because it allows, the first part is exploration, curiosity, which is good. The next part of Digital Nomadness, I think of like being involved with the people, being involved with culture. Like if you're only there for a week, two weeks, like you're, you're rushing to see the toury spot, find food.
You don't get to really talk to the people, get involved in language, get involved in community. I. So I think after like three months, or if you stayed in touch of the country the Visas country, then you get to be involved. Like you slow down that tourism part of yourself. You actually want to go to local foods.
You meet local pavilions or local ties, right? You actually start to learn the language a little bit, so you start to slowly engulf yourself in the country, which I enjoy more, right? Just because people make the difference when you travel. I think
Rohail Rizvi: that's true, man. That's true. Like you're actually getting to then experience the culture rather than just like doing fast tourism through all these places.
Right. So no, I totally, I totally agree with
Ian Fernando: you on that. Yeah. I mean, super important to be more engulfed than mm-hmm. Having, because it creates a different whole level of experience, like when you go to a tour spot. Sure. That's a self-experience. When you go with like a group of people and you know, to like maybe buffet you, local Brazilians or people, you have a, a group experience.
Right. Which is very, very different than a self experience. Right. It's very not, yeah. You
Rohail Rizvi: wouldn't get that otherwise For sure. And all these different things that you mentioned, like you're a big fan of like good food, so you get to actually experience like a, maybe a local will tell you about a restaurant that you wouldn't have found otherwise or you wouldn't find on, let's say like some tour, tour guide or Google.
Ian Fernando: like that. Yeah, exactly. So like I think just walking around self exploring is super important and then you see something that you might go ahead and get it, you know, I think food helps you understand the country a lot and the culture for sure. Definitely, definitely.
Rohail Rizvi: Those are, those are really good tips.
Now let's talk about some of the, maybe challenges you face as an internet marketer and a digital nomad. Can you share an example of a challenge you might have encountered in how you overcame
Ian Fernando: it? Let's see. Entrepreneurship and digital nomadness. I can't really, I can't really see a challenge really.
Mm-hmm. Maybe access to certain items, but most of my stuff are online. Oh, like here for, here's a good one. So I have my other laptop actually being serviced right now, and it's very expensive to get your laptop or electronic service here in Brazil. Like you're so MacBook Pro, like $1,200, right?
Mm-hmm. Here in Brazil is $4,000, right? So that is super expensive. In Columbia had my MacBook Pro Service for like 50 bucks here. I'm gonna pick that up later. It's being searched for $600 for the same machine. Right. That's insane. So the difference of pricing for electronics, I think it's challenging because now I have to think about, oh, when will I be back in the States?
Can I get somebody to ship it for me? Right. So this, the logistic part of getting a laptop from the US for. Even the max of 1500, it's still far cheaper to pay $4,000 here. Right? Yeah, for sure. But it probably becomes time, right? Where's my time wasted? Where's my time valuable? Is it worth the $600 today?
Because I might not be in this case for six months. Mm-hmm. Right. This becomes a a, an argument of like convenience versus necessity. Right. Them saving you. Yeah. That's definitely one challenge for sure. That's
Rohail Rizvi: wild. I can Yeah, totally get that electronics overseas. It's a whole different story.
Ian Fernando: Sure. Yeah.
I don't know why here in Brazil, the import pres are, taxation on electronic is super, super hot and even branded like name brand items like Adidas or, you know, Supreme is super expensive here. That's
Rohail Rizvi: crazy. Yeah. Sometimes, you know, you miss the good things at home, like Amazon, two day delivery, stuff like that.
Like Yeah, I could imagine. Well, they have Amazon here in Brazil,
Ian Fernando: it's not bad. Oh, weird. Okay. Nice. Oh yeah. But they don't have a lot of the products. Yeah. I mean, you can get a product. They just, they just ship internationally. I see. Which is I mean, which takes two weeks instead of two days. Two weeks.
But I use a local, local, local version here, which takes about same day or next day,
Rohail Rizvi: so. Okay. It's not bad. Yeah. Now what about, say, like a challenge like, While you're traveling a lot. What about managing your time effectively, like as a challenge? Like was that ever a challenge or what did you do about that?
Routines, maybe, or, yeah,
Ian Fernando: so I guess in the beginning, so now it's not really a challenge just because since I'm actually trying to live and base myself now before, I guess when I was doing the first two years where I'm trying to explore and, and do this and do that. Mm-hmm. I guess my first thing to say was like, okay, what do I want to do?
Where's my focus gonna be at? Are they gonna be at work in the morning, gonna explore later? Right? So it really all depends. I really didn't have that much of a challenge with times because I'm a very, I'm a fairly routine person, right? So like when I wake up, I'm usually doing stretch yoga before I go to the gym.
Then I have my breakfast. And then I don't even open my laptop till actually, you know, I do like my learning language. So within two and a half hours I don't even open up my laptop when I wake up. Right. And then I have like a set time of working every two hours when they're taking a 15 minute, 30 minute break.
Right. I think for a lot of people, I know a lot of travelers they want to explore and then work, but the problem is they just give a there's no planning. Right. Whereas I think. In the beginning you should start a little bit planning like, oh, I will do all this church stuff in the first week, so now have my next two, my next week and a half, or whatever, free time to actually work focus and all that.
Right. Yeah. But I think time also is, is very painful on your side of the country, bro. Where we're in Thailand, especially if you have clients or maybe you have affiliate managers in the East Coast time, I think that becomes an issue. I remember working in the Philippines I would have to wake up early so I can get LA time and stay up late so I can get East Coast time.
And then I had the whole middle of the day where I can do whatever I want. But the, that time, definitely a little bit different in beginning for sure. Yeah,
Rohail Rizvi: it's definitely a little tough. You gotta take advantage of like early morning, late night and then kind of just be a completely different routine than your normal, you know.
Nine to nine to seven whatever schedule in the East Coast. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. But, but it, it's one of the things with travel, like you, you kind of take that as a, as is and you still get to do both, explore different countries and still get your work done.
Ian Fernando: Yep. Agree. Agree. I mean, that's the beauty of working in a line.
You just work when you need to. If you don't work, if you don't make any money, if you work, hopefully you make money. Right,
Rohail Rizvi: exactly. Hopefully, hopefully. Yeah. Yeah, man. So. Let's see, ti time management, like we talked a little bit about that. Do you have any advice for, for people that are trying to become successful
Ian Fernando: internet marketers?
Well, I mean, it's very broad question. So I mean, it really all depends. Like, I think routine, very important. I'm a very routine guy. I think goal orientation is very important. Micro goals versus macro goals are super important. I think a lot of entrepreneurs, they look at the end goal and they wanna reach that end goal, but I try to tell them like, Hey, you should do the micro goal first.
Like, sell the website, right? Get your domain build, go the website, get your social going first, right? Those micro goals, I think are super important because mentally you're actually accomplishing something. Hmm. When you're doing the macros every day, you're not accomplishment. You're not winning every day.
So that kills your dopamine speed. Right? So it's very not, it's never good to do a macro strategy. I always do micro strategies. Sure you have a end goal, but I think you need to do it in a micro step way though. You can, you feed yourself both meal all the time. Right. There's obviously ways to do it with product choosing what kind of entrepreneur you wanna be.
You wanna do Amazon. I've done Amazon, I've done print on demand info marketing. I mean, there's a lot, a lot, a lot. Good. So many different
Rohail Rizvi: ways. A lot of different ways to make money online for sure. That's really good, man. There's micro, micro goals kind of lets you get that momentum rather than feeling down for not reaching some big goal.
On the daily. So and with that, let's kind of get maybe a little bit more into specifics. 'cause I know, you know, you're still very much involved in this space and you have a lot of experience. Can you share one of your most successful internet marketing campaigns and the key factors that contributed to its success?
Ian Fernando: And yeah, I think the most popular story I keep telling everybody is when I was in YouTube space where we had to, I didn't even know this. I don't know if you noticed this, like I didn't even know that Amex had a, a limit a car limit, right? Oh, okay. Amex has like a hundred K car limit, and when I got my first amex, I thought it was unlimited.
Right. So when we were, when we were buying media we were spending roughly a hundred k a day. Mm-hmm. Meaning we had to pre, meaning we had to always pay a hundred K the next day to Amex. Right. And then, which means we're also spending a hundred k a day on Aspen. So this means we're paying, I'm, we're, I'm paying AMX 200 K every day, plus spending a hundred K every day just because I need to spend a hundred K and make sure I'm paying the debt amount from yesterday a hundred K.
Right, right. So literally every day I'm throwing out 300 K every day. Right. That's crazy. And the new days was very, Fun, fast. I think that campaign lasted and I want to, I wanna say like five, four years, right? Mm-hmm. And it was it was entertaining for sure. And that was all through Google.
We were targeting, we were. So this strategy doesn't work anymore, but so Dr. Oz obviously is a celebrity, right? One of my business partners we, you could not use Dr. Oz in a search term right. To trigger, but this where the creativity comes in, right? We put in this doctor, you X amount of ounces, right?
In, in for to lose weight, right? Yeah. So we had the word doctor and o z in the ad, right? Which triggered the doctor. So this allowed us to be number one and number two, number three, number four, and number five. So instead of using Dr. Oz's name, we just simplify saying a doctor uses X amount of ounces to lose weight.
Mm-hmm. That triggered the search term, Dr. Oz. Right. So it this, it actually very, very well, it doesn't work now, but it is a very good way to think of like, how do I get Dr. Oz's name in my. Search term and result in my paid ads. I, that's pretty wild,
Rohail Rizvi: man. The creativity goes a long way in affiliate marketing, though.
You get that
Ian Fernando: edge. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Like the thing about affiliate marketing is that, what I love about it is that the affiliate marketers are like the best marketers. And the reason why is because we think, sure. Google says you cannot say celebrity named Dr. Oz. Our thinking is like, okay, how do I say Dr.
Oz in the ad without triggering Google's you know, restriction policies. Right? Right. What does, what does OG mean? Ounces. So ounce ounces, that's genius. It worked, right? This is where, why affiliate marketers are like the best. It's just we look at terms of surveys, we'll say. Mm-hmm. Oh, you cannot have, like TikTok, here's a good, a good example.
Yeah. TikTok does not allow debt campaigns, right? Mm-hmm. So I looked at term surveys or private policies and all that, like, okay, what, how, I wonder how many times debt has to be on a landing page for it to trigger tos or to trigger flagging my campaign. I'm like, I lemme just see, count all the debt words in my landing page right now.
Remove one by one before it gets planned. Eventually it came to a point where I can have the word debt on my page without triggering. Right? So that's another path. Right. But this is the problem. This is why affiliates think like, we'll listen to you what you say, Google, Facebook. We're gonna just do it just to poke you enough.
Right? Just to,
Rohail Rizvi: you gotta get under that threshold, like run it under. Right. And so you're able to Yeah, exactly. It's a. You're right. I think we are the best marketers because we're forced to be creative and work around sometimes rules and think of just new ways to do things. So yeah, direct response.
Affiliate marketers, like, it's so different than the marketing you see in the branding world, which isn't really trying to achieve a goal of trying to. Like right there, right. Then get someone to take an action.
Ian Fernando: I consult some companies agency, and when I hear these media buyers talk, I'm like, dude, you're, you're, you're a policy follower.
You're, ooh, you have your Google certificate, a words,
Rohail Rizvi: or whatever you wanna fucking call it. Right? Right.
Ian Fernando: You don't know nothing about media buying.
Rohail Rizvi: Nah. It's just, it's just a whole nother world. And then when they're exposed to it, they're just like so shocked. Yeah. I
Ian Fernando: mean, Media buyers are talented, like from the agency side, but they only know how to follow blueprint.
They don't know how to think outside of that. Like, why am I campaign converting? But, oh if you wanna do an ad, like, oh, but Facebook doesn't allow these type of ads, dude, just tweak it a little bit. Try it. Like, that's the problem with that. Buy side agency. Right. The agency taught me the buyers, I mean.
Rohail Rizvi: Exactly. Yeah. And they're forced to like probably follow a bunch of rules by brands and, you know, so they're just not used to pushing, pushing the envelope as much probably. No, no. I
Ian Fernando: mean, they're, if they, they which look at policies and. Rules and like, okay, I can't do that. Right.
Rohail Rizvi: Yeah. I mean, yeah, you remember all the crazy ads from back in the day.
One simple, one simple trick, all the crazy banners we've seen. So it's going way back. But how do you how has the world of affiliate marketing evolved since you started, and where do you, where do you see it going in the future? Like how, how do you see it in Yeah. 2023 and beyond.
Ian Fernando: Man. It, I mean, as you know, the industry changes so much.
Like right now, I, I recently got into paper call last year. Mm-hmm. So in affiliate marketing it would be C P A C P L C ps. Right. I'm very big in lead gen, right?
Rohail Rizvi: Yeah. But
Ian Fernando: as time evolves, I think marketing evolved too. Like companies, they want leads, but they don't want pay for bad leads. So they're always quantifying what is a good lead, right?
So lead gen has not deteriorated, but it's becoming more Strict or given a lower payout because the value of that leads, right? So for example, like Facebook lead gen forms, like they're really bad quality, right? Yeah. Like nobody liked those Facebook lead gen forms. They're like super, super bad, right?
Mm-hmm. Because they're auto filled, right? And sometimes the person that signed up on Facebook is an old email, old phone number, okay? So, Deli pretty bad versus maybe a true opt form on an actual website. Deli is much better than Facebook lead form, but the quality of maybe contact ratio, calling, texting, all that marketing that's involved in the first seven days for the advertiser is, becomes worthless because there's no contact rate.
Right. If don't get, if they don't get a contact rate of at least like 3%, 5% right, then it's, it's very badly and that's why I like payoff. I've been being lower for, for a lot of, wow. I think that's why I like paper call nowadays is again, picked up much more rapidly because you can actually pre-qualify the user right?
And there without trying to market to them through ss m s email, follow phone calls, right? One leader seven days. So right there you, you're gonna be like, oh, you're a good leader of Valley. Boom. Exactly. I think, and you know, over time, oh my bad. Go ahead. Oh no, I was
Rohail Rizvi: gonna say, and you know, they're serious 'cause they're actually getting on the phone making that, that call.
Ian Fernando: exactly. I think eventually advertising are gonna get smarter. AI is gonna be super involved. I mean, marketing for AI is gonna change a lot for sure. I think they're gonna speed up the marketing 200, 500, a thousand folds for sure in the next year. You
Rohail Rizvi: know what I mean? Wow. So, wow.
That's crazy. Yeah. I was gonna ask you, how do you see like AI coming into play with affiliate markers or like, how do you see that being implemented? Oh, man. I mean,
Ian Fernando: I use it right now, so I use like chatt PT to discover angles, gimme personas. Write copy. I use Mid Journey to create ads. And then, I mean, like mid Journey ads are like, the CTR are like, so far I've been getting like 11% C T R, which is like, okay,
Rohail Rizvi: unheard of.
That's really good. Yeah. Yeah.
Ian Fernando: So been down my P P V P C. C P C C. PV is a lot, but then the, the problem is now that the, the page conversion part is a little lower. Just because it's a higher c t r, that really beautiful image that mid journey creates. But then the landing page creates a, another issue.
But hopefully there'll be another AI tool that'll actually make a nice landing page. But simplicity is, is what, what rules and marketing anyway. Right? Right. But outside of that, what call centers, I think there's gonna be automated speech to text or text to speech style. Wow. I mean, it's gonna be responsive people on, on, on calls before it even gets transferred to a real live agent.
So call centers, I think the human part will be needed on the verification and validation, but under pre-validation, pre landing side, seeing if they qualify, I think it's all gonna be automated. Like they're like, you can literally have a call center on your phone and just spin up a thousand agents. I think that's gonna happen.
Rohail Rizvi: Right? That is crazy. Yeah. I mean, we talk about like other jobs being replaced, like. You know, bank tellers, cashiers, stuff like that. Like with ai, even maybe doctors can, because AI can make better, better analysis than than doctors in some, in some, in a lot of cases. Now how do you see that affecting affiliates?
Does, will, will advertisers just use AI to go out there, run ads optimized landing pages Do, will they? Where will the need of an affiliate come in or, or remain?
Ian Fernando: So this is, this is a very talkable topic. Topic for sure. I definitely think Achilles are still gonna be needed just because of the creativity side, right?
Sure somebody can launch a campaign but there's structured that can be needed, like. AI can probably learn that after you've given it feedback. Like you probably run a campaign structure very differently than I run a campaign structure, right? Mm-hmm. Probably manual bidding versus auto bidding.
I mean, I do a lot of broad, right? A lot of people probably do interest targeting, right? Yeah. So the styles are gonna be very, very different for sure. I don't think there's can be a fix. And ai, but it'll be supplemented with ai. Meaning that your copy, your pages, your ad, c t r, I mean your ad creators are gonna be purely, purely automated.
But the thought process will be, I think, still needed for the affiliate marketer. 'cause even now, I think my stats, when I put in the chat tell me, Hey, which ad is is, is better over X amount of time. So even that analyzing part is being taken away from the marketer. Right. That's which I actually enjoy.
Right. But as long as you're educating ai, I think the really marketer and every marketer will still be needed. Right. Just because the, the creativity part that's important, right?
Rohail Rizvi: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think we're still at that point where like, It's like being able to give it the right prompts is, is a skill in itself.
And so being able to do that better can make you, your marketing ultimately better If you're, if you're, like you said, structuring your campaigns in a certain way or coming up with creative ideas for, to input into ai. Yeah, that's, that's still at this point definitely still Aval valuable skill for sure.
Agreed. Now has there So I guess what, are there any tools or resources or platforms you recommend aspiring affiliate marketers or digital nomads to help them in their journey?
Ian Fernando: Man, I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of forums for sure. I mean, I recommend like s t m Appli. There are definitely the good forms starting in affiliate marketing.
Mm-hmm. I mean, but I think you can just learn this all through YouTube nowadays. Like there's so much stuff on YouTube. Right. For sure. The only thing that YouTube doesn't have is actual personal experience, right? Like, If you search how to get Dr. Oz in my go, in my search term, you'll never find my strategy on YouTube.
Ah. But like, stuff like that is like, will never be, will never be on, on YouTube. But long you have the basic and the understanding and the foundation mm-hmm. Is the most important part. Right. Self creativity is, again, the. The part where it's all about you, right? Not everybody's creative, you know, which is perfectly fine, but then you have chat g b T to help you, you know, hopefully get be creative for you or mid be creative for you, right?
I think having the community's very important. As you know, I, I had an affiliate community during Covid, during the pandemic, I mean, And I sold that in like 2021 a year later. I think having people that motivates you is super, super important. Like chatting every day telling you that you're good, you're bad, you're doing okay.
I think those are important, right? But starting out at being digital nomad, I think is what type of digital nomad do you wanna be? Do you wanna be an affiliate marketer? Do you wanna be a freelancer? Right? I think those are important, but even then, I don't even think. Freelancers or digital nomads either.
You know what I mean? Yeah. For me, I think digital nomad is about freedom of time, right? Mm-hmm. If you don't have that, you're not a digital nomad. Like a lot of freelancers remote workers, they think they're digital nomads like or you're not. Right?
Rohail Rizvi: Right. Sometimes they're given that label, but I also personally think like digital nomad is a, is a different breed 'cause they've like completely broken free, both from like, Geography, their independent location, independent, plus time independent.
I think you can, yeah, timing.
Ian Fernando: Exactly. Exactly. I definitely agree with that. You know, it's just another term for entrepreneurship, I think without, but freedom of mobility,
Rohail Rizvi: you know? Yeah. Now, I mean, we're seeing the world as, especially after the pandemic becomes so global and companies being run, startups being run with employees all around the world.
So like, yeah, you. Yeah. It, it relates more to being an entrepreneur in my mind now than ever before. Yeah,
Ian Fernando: definitely agree. Like, I always can argument with people like, oh, I'm doing nomad, but I do yoga instructions online for this company. I'm like that's what, no, you're not nomad.
Rohail Rizvi: You know? Right, right.
You're still, in a way, it's, it's somewhat still like, kind of freelance. You just, you were able to just get outta office, but nothing wrong. If that's where you're starting off, that's, that's fine. It's it's one step out. Of the system kind of to, to break free from. Agree. You know, it's like one,
Ian Fernando: you know, you got to first step in the door or whatever they say.
Rohail Rizvi: Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. You just got, get that first step and then after that, you know, you could evolve from being a freelancer to maybe starting your own, own online yoga classes or whatever it might be. Just be able to be on your own. So lastly, if, if you would, could now go back in time and give advice to your younger self at the start of your.
Affiliate marketing, internet marketing career. What, what would you say? Buy Bitcoin. Don't, don't wheel man, don't wheel.
Ian Fernando: Yeah. I'll find what I've done for sure. I don't think I would change anything about my path. Mm-hmm. But if I was gonna give myself advice I think one big mistake is that. I don't think about, so problem with affiliate marketers is that we're outta money now, not tomorrow.
And my biggest issue, which is also still an issue today, is that if. I kept all my leads back in the day, I would literally just have to send one email every day and I, I'd be making good money. Right? So I think for beginners out there, ha having leads, it's the most important part, right? Capturing leads the most important part.
Right? So another story is when we had our YouTube business. But then part in the beginning we were like making $10,000 a day. Right. And then we were like, Hey, let's do something with these leads. Like we could probably make an extra $10,000 a month. Yeah. Argument was like, do you wanna make $10,000 a day, do 15, 20,000 a day, or do you wanna make $10,000 a month?
Mm-hmm. But like, damn, that makes sense, right? It's an argument. Do I focus more time to make 10,000, 20,000 a day, right? Or do I focus another part of my business and time making 10,000 a month, which is just like $500 an extra a day, right? So didn't that company close down? If I kept those leads and, and kept them warm, I literally would just have, I literally would spend 15 minutes a day, 30 minutes a day, send an email, and I'll be making money consistently.
That would be most of my work nowadays. Whereas now I'm still working like four, five hours a day. Not too bad, right? I still have my time. I can do whatever I want, but if I kept those leads and kept them more and over time, instead of arguing 'em $10,000 a month, I should have done that. And then I would literally just be sending one email a day, even twice a day and just, it'd just be in my a t m, you know what I mean?
Rohail Rizvi: sure. It's crazy, man. The money's in the list, right? That that's what they always say. And it's, it's crazy to think, even now in 2023, email is still kind of king, like in terms of longevity. Everyone's still, no matter what, checks their email every day and
Ian Fernando: email hasn't even changed a crazy part.
Rohail Rizvi: Yeah, Gmail is still Gmail.
I mean it's you know, we had SS m s and text, but like still nothing is as personal as email yet, still at this point. Yeah, agreed.
Ian Fernando: So capturing Deja C lead for sure would be, Advice to tell myself to like,
Rohail Rizvi: yeah. Nothing man. I, I think back to, you know, prosper 2 0 2 days and volume and seeing all those crazy amounts of clicks we've been driving.
And then just to think back, like we had just captured some of those emails on like a pop under or something would be nice.
Ian Fernando: Yeah, I know. I know. Yeah. I. It's super, super important. Technically over
Rohail Rizvi: time it's not too late to start. It's not too late to start. It's you know, yeah, for sure. Starting out to build a list.
Yep. And. And you have a, a community and everything, and you also are working with you know, people in the, in the industry. Is there anything you'd like to share or any any companies or projects you'd like to plug with the listeners
Ian Fernando: today? Well I recently started a couple for a p d which the network, I'm trying to get.
I'm trying to decide what part of my career path I want to get onto now. So hopefully learning from Jason, may d will put me on a new path because again, I don't know if you feel this way, RO, like I've been in gate for so long that what is next, right? I have my time, I have my freedom. I've accomplished everything I've gotten the cars about in the watches.
What is next after that? So, I think consultant for a big network or an agency is. My next step in trying to discover what I want to do. But other than that, I mean, that's basically my project. I mean, I started consulting in after the pandemic just because I had these thought process of like, what do I want in my career?
What, what is next challenge for me? Right. So, but yeah, I mean you can find me pretty much all over the internet, so
Rohail Rizvi: I'm good. That's awesome, man. No, I feel you. Like thinking about what's next is always interesting, especially when you've done like you've achieved. The things you've wanted to achieve. It's always like a, a process of evolving, even as an entrepreneur in general.
But it's really cool to see working with like a, a company like A four D and consulting with them and, and you know, using that as kind of a way to learn and evolve. Because, you know, there's a lot, you know, Jason's a great guy to learn a ton from him. You know, just listening to him speak, you know, you always learn something new.
Sure. He's an og, so Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Well, those are wise words to live by. And yeah, I just wanna say thank you for for joining today, Ian. It's been really cool to catch up and, and chat and for sharing your valuable insights and experiences. I'm sure our listeners learn a lot and are inspired by your journey.
Ian Fernando: appreciate that. Man, thank you for having me. Thank you guys for listening in. Hopefully it was inspirational enough and hopefully you enjoyed some of the creativities and stories. So thank you
Rohail Rizvi: again, Rob. Definitely, definitely man. Absolutely. For our listeners, if you'd like to learn more about Ian Fernando and his work, be sure to check out his website.
All his social media channels should be able to find him easily. And we'll also link in the show notes below. And as always, thank you for tuning into the Nomadic Millionaire Podcast. Until next time, keep dreaming big and living life on your own terms.
Life is an ongoing process of self-discovery and personal development, and along the way, we frequently come to forks on the road where we reflect on our goals and the direction we have taken. When I, a metrics-driven affiliate marketer, understood the need for more fulfilling and value-driven work, it was a truly transformative moment.
I was considering what to do next in my online career during the pandemic. Will I spend my entire life purchasing media? I wondered. Although I am excellent at it, I also feel stuck. I've created a number of businesses, from POD to Lead Gen to eCom, and I've had success in all areas of online marketing. I've even sold three businesses in the past, and while I'm always eager to launch a new venture, affiliate marketing is where I usually end up.
In this blog post, I'll talk about my transition from being an online marketer to pursuing a profession based on my values and life objectives. I'll also talk about the lessons I learned along the way as I embraced a purposeful life.
I'm now figuring out what comes next and why I just joined A4D. Let me explain why I choose to make this modification in 5 different ways.
Recognizing the need for change is the first step in any major life transformation. I was a successful web marketer, but I secretly felt empty. I started to wonder about the effect of my work and whether it matched my fundamental principles and interests.
This introspection helped me come to the profound insight that I wanted a job that would allow me to change the world and be in line with my personal objectives.
Once the need for change has been established, it is time to investigate fresh possibilities that align with one's beliefs and goals. In quest of information about jobs that complemented my own objectives, I engaged myself in study and discussions with experts from a variety of fields.
I was able to achieve clarity throughout this exploration period by discovering prospective routes that would allow me to combine my skills with a meaningful career.
A thorough knowledge of my underlying beliefs was necessary for the transition from an online marketer to a career focused on values. I thought about the issues that were most important to me, like sustainability, social effect, and personal development.
I discovered that I was drawn to fields like social entrepreneurship, environmentally friendly business methods, and community development by matching these principles with probable job alternatives. My career would benefit society as a result of this congruence, which also permitted personal development and fulfillment.
Learning new skills and information is frequently required while changing careers. I started a journey of ongoing learning to develop knowledge in fields connected to the career I wanted.
I built up a broad skill set that enabled me to make the change successfully through online courses, workshops, and networking with specialists in my targeted sector. I was able to fill the gap between my prior experience as an online marketer and the demands of my current work thanks to this procedure.
There are difficulties involved in making the switch to a value-driven career. It necessitates bravery, tenacity, and adaptability. I met obstacles and disappointments along the way, but each one provided an opportunity for development.
I gained the ability to adapt to new situations, embrace change, and persevere in the face of challenges. These difficulties boosted my character and solidified my resolve to live a life guided by purpose.
Jason Akatiff has helped me in the past in many scenarios of business and especially during my nuta days as an eCom marketer. Knowledge of his perspective on business gives me a full flight on what the future can hold.
I learned the significance of self-reflection, exploration, aligning values, continual learning, and perseverance on my path from an online marketer to a value-driven career. I feel fulfilled because I've adopted a purpose-driven lifestyle, which has allowed me to both have a beneficial impact on the world and enjoy my work on a personal level.
I urge everyone who feels the need for change to embrace their journey, pay attention to their inner guidance, and choose a course that fits with their beliefs and life goals.
In this post, I will discuss how to use QuillBot AI in combination with some of my favorite ad spy tools to run highly profitable advertising campaigns.
This workflow will make your job as an advertiser easier than you could ever imagine. You just copy what's already working on the market, and then let AI make your version even better!
Let's get to it.
QuillBot AI is an online paraphrasing tool that leverages the power of artificial intelligence to rephrase your copy. This AI software offers various options to customize your text depending on the tone and style you want.
All you need to do is paste any copy you want to be reworded into the QuillBot paraphraser tool and watch the magic happen.
Some key features of QuillBot include:
There are many options for ad spy tools and every digital marketer has their own preference.
I personally use Anstrex for spying on native and push ads, and Social Ad Spyder to see what’s working with Facebook ads.
If you’re unfamiliar with Anstrex or how to use ad spy tools in general, go ahead and check out my full breakdown of how to use Anstrex. It’ll make it a lot clearer how I find ad copy to enhance with QuillBot.
The goal here is to take what's already working and then use QuillBot AI to make a slight improvement so that your version is better than the competition.
I start by setting my spy tool parameters and searching for advertisements that have been performing well in my intended niche.
Once I find a high-potential ad to mimic with the spy tool, I simply copy the text the advertiser used and paste it into the QuillBot paraphraser.
I usually try out a few of the different style modes to see what options the AI produces before settling on what feels best for the specific ad I’m planning to run.
Then, I use the synonym bar to dictate how much the copy changes from the original text. Typically, I try to make fewer changes because I don’t want my copy to vary too much from what has already performed well.
Lastly, I hover over the words to see QuillBot's thesaurus suggestions and analyze if any other words are more suitable to use for my purpose.
However, I don't stop my improvements at just the ad copy. I also use QuillBot to create better landing page copy as well.
With Social Ad Spyder and Anstrex, I can easily download the landing page of the ad I'm spying on.
After I download and scrape the landing page, I take the text on the landing page and insert that into QuillBot for enhancement.
Updating both the ad and landing page copy equips you with an improved and unique advertising context to push.
And... That’s pretty much it!
This tool is like my own dedicated ads copywriter that is available 24/7.
You do not have to pay to use QuillBot AI. The free version of the software allows you to change up to 125 words of text in the paraphraser tool at a time. Because we are using QuillBot just to enhance ad copy, that’s all we really need.
Even if you want to use QuillBot to update extended landing page copy, you can just input the text into the paraphraser as shortened chunks of 125 words or fewer to avoid paying.
However, at $8.33/month, QuillBot Premium has some advanced features that you may find useful to further enhance your campaigns. I think the free version of the software does a really nice job of improving copy, but you’re limited to just two of the seven available modes.
You get the Standard mode, which makes basic changes to the text without straying from the original meaning, and the Fluency mode, which fixes grammatical errors and improves readability.
But what if you need ad copy that really pops and catches attention because the visual assets are lacking? You may benefit by having premium access to the Creative mode.
Or, what if your target audience is less educated or just has a less advanced English ability? You may find QuillBot’s Simple mode does a better job of rephrasing the copy in a way that more people can understand.
If you advertise using spy tools, QuillBot AI is a great software to add to your marketing stack. It quickly and affordably delivers high-quality, unique advertising copy.
Imagine being able to test different styles with QuillBot and see how each performs when you run a campaign. If you find one style doesn't work, you can quickly tweak the copy.
In advertising, a simple thing like adjusting the copy tone can make all the difference.
QuillBot is an efficient ad copy rewriting tool and I believe any advertiser using spy tools could really benefit from using it. It's a new year, after all. Why not let awesome tools and AI do most of the work for you?
For anyone looking to create profitable ad campaigns on Facebook, this Social Ad Spyder review is definitely for you!
As an affiliate, I frequently use ad spy tools to see what creatives are working right now and ensure my operations are aligned with the current trends.
Spy tools enable you to efficiently launch advertising campaigns by analyzing the performance of other advertisements in your niche of choice. This helps you to determine factors like how you should angle your ad, what type of visual assets to use, and the optimal length for your copy to set up a profitable campaign.
Ad spy tools save you time and money by showing you exactly what type of ad you should create if you want to do well so you don’t waste as many resources on testing as we digital marketers were subject to in the past.
This is especially important in the current environment of digital advertising, where advertising costs are trending upward as the space gets more competitive.
If you run advertisements on Facebook or Instagram, this social ad spy tool will give you a huge advantage over your competition by showing you what a profitable ad looks like out of the gate.
Social Ad Spyder is an ad spy tool specifically for platforms under the Meta umbrella, so it works for Facebook, Instagram, the Meta Audience Network, and Messenger. It's a social ad search engine that collects and organizes social network advertising data so that you can make informed campaign decisions.
At just $49.99 for the Professional subscription or $59.99 for the Premium, Social Ad Spyder is a bargain and well worth the price considering the thousands of dollars a month it will save you on ad spending and data collection efforts.
Although the platform has just recently launched, it has been scraping data for over two years, so it’s ready to start making an immediate impact on your social campaigns.
Social Ad Spyder is made for affiliates and E-commerce advertisers who run paid social ads on Meta.
Affiliates have access to data from over a dozen verticals like Crypto, Male Health, and CBD. As an affiliate, you get thousands of new ads daily and landing pages are conveniently available to download for quick analysis.
If you're an E-commerce marketer, you'll be excited to know that you can quickly sort through ads from the biggest platforms like Shopify, WooCommerce, and ClickFunnel to analyze product ad performance. Plus, downloading video and image media assets for analysis and adjustment is as easy as a single click.
With Social Ad Spyder, you have access to:
Social Ad Spyder is very easy to use. If you’ve already worked with the Anstrex spy tool for push ads, you’ll find the interface of Social Ad Spyder very familiar, as it was created by one of the founders of Anstrex.
I’ll use the rest of this article to discuss how I use this tool. Make sure to watch the Youtube live training here, or the video above.
As you can see from the image below, your filtering parameters are aligned across the top of the screen. Once you set some parameters and filter the data, your dashboard is filled with any matching advertisements.
Each result shows you:
When you see an ad that piques your interest, you can click and open it up to analyze even more data as seen below. This is also where you can see the landing page that the advertisement used.
An aspect of this tool that really excites me is the "Creatives" tab. Here, you can see all the advertisement variations that have been running and quickly compare their performance. You can get an idea of where you should advertise and which angle and style you should use when crafting your own ad.
Over the last six months, I've been getting into pay-per-call campaigns because it's a growing trend in the industry, so that's what I'm currently using this tool for.
I start by using the search function and typing in the keyword of the vertical I want to advertise in. I search by "Landing page search" because my strategy is always to pre-sell my affiliate offer, so I only want to see advertisements that incorporate a landing page.
Then I sort by "Duration (desc)" so I can see the longest-running ads first on the dashboard. I also set the minimum duration to seven days because if an ad can run for at least a week, that shows it has probably performed pretty well.
Finally, because I'm mostly focused on pay-per-call, I set the CTA to "Call Now" so I filter advertisements only from pay-per-call campaigns.
Although this is how I'm currently using Social Ad Spyder, many other uses and filtering parameters beyond what I've discussed here can enhance any Meta-based social advertising campaign.
If you want to substantially improve your Facebook advertising results, you can experiment with this tool for two days risk-free and watch your performance skyrocket!
Social Ad Spyder is currently my go-to spy tool to get ideas for social media advertising campaigns.
The key to using this spy tool successfully is to see what’s working on the market and then try to make a slight improvement by adding your own unique spin to make yours better than the competition.
Social Ad Spyder has made a noticeable difference in my advertising performance and I believe it can be a beneficial tool for any affiliate or E-commerce marketer running ads on Facebook or Instagram.
If you’re struggling to get profitable with your Meta advertising or just want to improve your current processes, give this game-changing social ad spy tool a try today!
I frequently join numerous WhatsApp and Facebook groups while I'm traveling. It enables me to stay in touch with pertinent users who enjoy traveling and are online business owners. However, occasionally you may be lured into a community of regular travelers rather than digital nomads.
I think first we have to clarify what a digital nomad is. Wikipedia states
Digital nomads are people who live in a nomadic way while working remotely using technology and the internet.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_nomad
This, in my opinion, is inaccurate and not a complete definition. Simply because you can relocate from one location to another does not qualify you as a digital nomad; working remotely does. To me, being a digital nomad entails independence. Although being able to travel freely does not necessarily imply having a job, it does make you a digital nomad.
Let's talk about a popular quote that goes, "You are the average of your five friends." This a well-known quote and something to consider carefully. Now we have communities, groups, WhatsApp groups, Twitter - your average of 5 now is 100x because of social media.
Also, a lot of people are not 'hanging out' as everything has moved online. There are no more just hangout meetups, or just chilling at a cigar bar and talking business. Everything is online and being average on the internet will destroy your mind.
Particularly, this Whatsapp group has devolved into an all-out frenzy. Travelers who identify as digital nomads but are actually just working from home are not. I am not going to take your pronouns away, but as stated above nomadness = freedom.
Got off track here...
We must ensure that the group is both focused and of high caliber. The first meetup I attended after joining a community of digital nomads was quite helpful. Online income was available to everyone.
Recently, it has mostly simply been a group of travelers looking to get together. When someone politely asked whether they might share the Whatsapp connection to a Facebook group, I gently replied that we should make sure the new members are excellent and are also marketers.
Everyone in the group needs to receive value instead of always giving. I believe in reciprocity and this input-output helps entrepreneurs become the 6th average person in the group. Here is a response from an admin of the group after I posted that we want to have quality.
Now that the group had begun to discuss marketing and the admin was a social media manager, I was quite perplexed. Because so many people worked online and weren't just calling themselves digital nomads or entrepreneurs, this is the reason our first meetup was so great.
I was totally perplexed when the phrase "the more the merrier" was used in the group because it should always be "quality, not quantity," especially for a group that wants to expand. For travel-related activities, a separate channel may be available, but for business collaboration, it is crucial to establish a group that is focused on each others' growth.
I am not writing this to complain but more of a reminder that we live in a world of huge communities now, if you want to be the 6th richest person in the group, then you need a group of rich people. If you want to be the best basketball player in the group, you need people that want to play basketball every day and dissect basketball players.
I remember when I was in Brazil, I asked a general travel group if I can create a marketing meetup Whatsapp group and I wanted to have a question, stating do you make 10k a month online. A lot of people got offended and then I got reported to the group and I guess that is how I got booted from the Whatsapp group.
We live in a world now where we need to be friends with everyone, even with the person who brings no value. How does one person grow, if someone is just a giver and not a receiver?
This is why it is important to separate yourself from the general and be the next mover, if the person is offended because you ask how much they make (10k is very easy to make a month) then they are not in the same space as you. Just brush it off and move on with the people who are making those numbers.
In order to be the average of your 5 best friends, you need 5 best friends that will push, support, question, tell you you are ugly and just be upfront and real. Everyone else who has to think before they speak is not the type of person you want to be around.
Again, to be the best you need to be with the best. You do not go get a mentor that is below you, you get one that far surpasses your expectations and your 5 friends shouldn't be any different.
Why do more and more affiliates now prefer native advertising, even giving up on Facebook campaigns? Better quality leads and, hence, a higher approval rate along with a broad audience reach and fewer problems with account bans. And that's not all! Read the article to find out how to achieve good results with Health & Beauty offers on native ads.
For those who are also looking into getting started with native advertising, there is a brief info about the upcoming webinar by AdCombo & Taboola at the end. The webinar is held on November 1st, at 12:00pm UTC, to let affiliates learn about efficient campaign management on native ads. Also, there is a great chance to find an almost complete strategy for launching a native-ad campaign with Health & Beauty offers! Find a registration form down through the post.
Now, let’s get down to a detailed overview of the results that AdCombo affiliates managed to get by promoting Health & Beauty products on Taboola.
What is AdCombo?
There are very few people in the CPA niche who haven’t heard about AdCombo. Nevertheless, AdCombo is an international CPA Network with 130 000+ affiliates around the globe. It has a wide range of verticals with a primary focus on Health & Beauty goods, including in-house ones.
What is Taboola?
Taboola is the world's leading discovery & native advertising platform that provides an opportunity to attract about 500 million users a day to a product or service. Although Taboola is the largest native ad platform, not every affiliate has even tried working with it.
The collaboration started with a couple of experienced AdCombo affiliates. Rapidly, AdCombo got to be a master on running Taboola campaigns. AdCombo is a master within the Taboola algorithm, efficiently optimizing Taboola campaigns, reaching diverse audiences in numerous markets, and scaling campaigns in the most effective way.
These are some tools AdCombo’s affiliates are using to promote on Taboola - SmartBid, Attentive Audiences, and Motion Ads.
Without cutting the volume that AdCombo affiliates have on Facebook and Google, multiple AdCombo affiliates have reached a five-figure spend (a 6,000% increase) per day without affecting performance. A few affiliates benefited from CPA decrease of more than 30% (QOQ) on selected Health & Beauty offers, which led to months of profitable affiliate campaigns.
As a result of cooperation with Taboola, some AdCombo affiliates got a 10% better approval rate than Facebook due to more high-quality leads.
What advantages of running AdCombo offers with Taboola?
As an affiliate with a good volume of traffic, AdCombo will provide you with access to Taboola agency accounts, which includes well-rounded support from both AdCombo and Taboola managers.
That’s how AdCombo has benefited from collaboration with Taboola. Want more info on their experience? Join AdCombo x Taboola webinar on ? November 1st, 2022. 12:00 PM (UTC).
The guys will be talking about where to start working with native ads and how to make a win-win strategy of coming on the native-ad path with Health & Beauty offers.
You'll be learning from the best experts:
It's Ian Fernando here. I do online marketing for the past 20 years already. Been an affiliate, media buyer, and advertiser. I own a software company. I sold two software companies, sold a social community recently. Yeah, I'm an all-around marketer online.
Nowadays, I'm doing a lot of lead gen, and a lot of social traffic. I do a lot of TikTok lead gen specifically in debt, finance, home repair, home renovation, and things of that nature. But all on TikTok.
TikTok is just an easy platform to get on just because it's so automated on their side. The algorithm is so powerful that you can literally throw up your ad and give it a couple of hours and get a conversion and theIR algorithm with what makes their platform very powerful.
I say, just throw up a couple of ad variants, figure out the CBO campaign and let TikTok figure out which one of the ad formats is best for your creative or your offer, and then start tweaking it in that direction.
I've only done lead gen, so finance, debt. I also tried a tort as well. Tora did pretty well, and offer wall do well too as well. So those are the ones that I've done specifically so far.
Tracking I use RedTrack volume. More so with your conversion API, just so I can get real-time tracking with that platform and feed it back to TikTok in real time.
They are a lot of supply tools. I use a very expensive supply tool that gives me a lot of pretty good in-depth data. But I don't want to say it just yet. But it's a very good one, but the best way to really just find the best ad organically is pretty much just go on TikTok, type in a keyword or hashtag and look at what people are promoting and see which one is the most popular one and see if you can angle it that way as well.
Of course, you have to always test. So when I start a campaign, I probably start off with five creatives that are very different from each other, 5-second, 15, second, 30 to minute videos, and see which one does well.
They all have different angles as well, different intro styles as well. And then I figure out from there, what ad creative and what angle I need to go to based on what TikTok is telling me.
Facebook native. I stepped away a lot from, the last time we talked with pops and push. I was doing a lot of, but now I'm doing definitely more into the tier one traffic sources, for sure.
Of course. Yeah, the networking side of the industry is super important. I've known you for years. I know a lot of people here for years as well. And just to shake hands with somebody that might be doing better than you gives you aspirations to even push yourself and do more. So networking in this industry specifically is very important.
If I'm going to lose. I'm going to lose money. So if you have that mindset already right away, then I think after that, just picking yourself up is much faster than just staying down on the ground. A lot of people in this industry, give up too quickly because they don't understand maybe the tactic, they don't understand maybe why the CTR happened.
They don't understand why the click-through on their landing page dropped. The thing about affiliates and creative marketers is we ask the question, why did that happen? And then from there, we dig deeper into that situation and try to find a solution as to why.
So I think the mindset of asking why and being willing to lose right away instead of winning is a very important mindset to have, I think, in my opinion.
So there are two arguments. Do I want to focus on money? Do I want to start on what I'm enjoying? I feel like the easiest way to get started is to focus on what you enjoy, because you actually have knowledge of what you enjoy. And if you have the knowledge, you can start thinking about your audience. You can start thinking about the ad style because you've been around it.
Whereas if you're just looking for the money side, you have to put in more effort for research. Whereas if you enjoy something, you kind of already have that basic knowledge of what the audience is.
Who's going to look after it? And if you lose on what you enjoy, technically you're not losing. But I think that's the important part too.