As I get older, I find myself reflecting on the remarkable journey of growth and change - not just personally, but professionally. At this milestone, I’ve come to realize that the essence of life and career is not just about achieving goals but about the impact of sharing knowledge and building communities. This is especially true in the world of affiliate marketing, a field where I have built a substantial presence over the past 15 years.

The Early Days: Guarding Secrets

When I first entered the field of affiliate marketing, it was a secretive industry, often led by purported specialists and gurus. These individuals often learned one clever trick and promptly built an entire course around it. Their real business wasn’t actually in the field they were teaching about; it was rooted in information marketing. Granted, I started in the same space, but my journey was laced with a different set of moral qualms.

The environment back then was rife with skepticism. In popular forums like BlackHatWorld and WickedFire, where affiliate marketers congregate to exchange tips and tricks, being labeled a "guru" could quickly tarnish your reputation.

These platforms were battlegrounds, where credibility was hard-won and easily lost. Launching a course could make you a target, not just of criticism but of mockery. It wasn’t just about whether you were contributing valuable information; it was about whether you were seen as exploiting the community for personal gain.

I know I have been 'exposed' in WickedFire.

In those days, sharing wasn't just frowned upon—it was a risky move that could alienate you from your peers. You were often forced to choose between being viewed as a helpful marketer or a guru seeking to profit from half-baked knowledge.

This dichotomy created a culture where many chose to hoard knowledge rather than share it. The fear of being "posted everywhere," criticized, and called out for sharing information was real. It was a period when being secretive about your tactics and strategies was not only common but often seen as necessary for survival.

This mindset was prevalent among marketers at the time. The idea of sharing freely was counterintuitive; it was viewed as opening your playbook to the public, including your competitors. Why would you give others the tools to potentially outcompete you?

This perspective was deeply ingrained in the industry's culture, reflecting a broader trend in early digital marketing circles where knowledge was power, and power was not to be shared lightly.

However, as the digital world has evolved, so too has the perspective on what it means to share knowledge in affiliate marketing. As I matured both personally and professionally, I realized the potential and the imperative of shifting from a mindset of competition to one of legacy and contribution. This change was not just about personal growth but about shaping the future of affiliate marketing for the better.

The Shift: Value-Driven Goals

However, as the digital landscape evolved, so did my perspective on sharing information. I began to see that true strength lies not in hoarding knowledge but in disseminating it. Sharing insights and strategies doesn’t just help others—it enhances the entire ecosystem, pushing the boundaries of what we can achieve together in affiliate marketing.

This shift in mindset is deeply connected to my personal growth. Turning 40 has not just been about aging but about maturing in how I view success and value.

It’s about legacy and the realization that life’s worth is measured by the value we create for others, not just for ourselves.

Writing as a Form of Sharing

Despite initially being a self-confessed poor writer (you, my readers, always let me know via my blog), I've always had a passion for networking, speaking, and sharing my insights with others. It was these interactions that truly sparked my love for teaching and disseminating knowledge in more dynamic and engaging ways.

For years, I believed that these forms of direct communication were the best way for me to contribute to the growing field of affiliate marketing. Creating content via YouTube and Twitter was all there, but really not there.

However, as I dove deeper into my career, I recognized a crucial limitation of these methods: their transience. Speaking engagements and networking events provide immediate engagement but lack the lasting presence that written work offers.

This realization hit me, especially as I pondered the future of my career and the legacy I wanted to leave. The digital space is continually evolving, and there will come a time when I might step back from being actively involved in the industry.

1 of 4 Books I am Writing

In line with my commitment to share and educate, I am proud to introduce my latest work, "The Incomplete Guide to Affiliate Marketing."

This book is designed as a comprehensive blueprint for understanding affiliate marketing as a legitimate business, rather than just a series of one-off tricks. My intention is to provide readers with a foundational resource that demystifies affiliate marketing and offers a thorough exploration of its potential as a career.

"The Incomplete Guide to Affiliate Marketing" captures decades of insights and experiences, aiming to equip both new and seasoned marketers with the knowledge to build sustainable and profitable marketing strategies. It's more than just a book; it's an invitation to rethink affiliate marketing and to engage with it deeply and thoughtfully.

By choosing to share my knowledge, I hope to inspire others to see the value in openness and collaboration. This book is a part of my legacy, a way to contribute to a community that continues to evolve and thrive through shared success.

Read a Sample from the Book

My book on affiliate marketing is not about quick riches or superficial success; it's fundamentally about laying a solid foundation for sustainable growth in the digital marketing world.

It's designed to guide you through the complexities of online monetization, offering a deeper understanding with each chapter. As you delve further into the rabbit hole of making money online, this book will be your reliable resource, helping you to build, expand, and refine your strategies over time. It's for those who are serious about developing their skills and knowledge, setting the stage for long-term success rather than offering empty promises of overnight wealth.

Foundational Marketing by Being an Affiliate

I'd like to reflect on a video I shared on YouTube nine years ago. In this video, I explore how affiliate marketing isn't just a standalone endeavor; it's a gateway into a broader world of digital marketing possibilities.

It underscores the very essence of what my book, Incomplete Guide to Affiliate Marketing, aims to teach. This guide is crafted to lay a robust foundation that allows anyone—from beginners to seasoned marketers—to grow and expand their marketing acumen as they delve deeper into this dynamic field.

Indeed, my book is designed as a starting point for anyone looking to understand the fundamental principles that make affiliate marketing work. It’s about building a strong base from which you can explore and master other aspects of digital marketing.

The journey through affiliate marketing is one of continuous learning and adaptation, and with the insights from my book, you're well-equipped to navigate this ever-evolving landscape. Remember, this isn't about finding shortcuts; it's about setting yourself up for sustained success and growth in the fascinating world of online marketing.

John Casto: What's up guys? I got a very special guest here. Ian Fernando, one of the OG's in the office.

My man, we're hanging out here in New York City at Affiliate Summit East. Ian, thank you for joining me,

Ian Fernando: man. It's about time. I thought you were going to interview me at like Pelicon and at Barcelona. Yeah,

John Casto: I would run into you in the club and that's where I would see you. We'd talk about it and then we'd be like, okay, let's do it.

Ian Fernando: You don't always meet me at the club

John Casto: I mean, come on now.

Ian Fernando: Yeah. Next question.

John Casto: You just, you just came in. I just saw you in Barcelona two weeks ago in the club, actually, literally. And then, uh, you were in Portugal. Yes. After

Ian Fernando: affiliate world. Uh, for two weeks. Yes. What'd you think? Dude, I love it there. It's a amazing place.

Very hilly. Reminds me of like Columbia a little bit. Is it Lisbon or Porto? I went to Lisbon and then I went to, uh, Algarve and, and Alvor and beautiful places. I really love the food there. It's all really good seafood, fresh, so good, man. So good. It's not like Colombian food. Oh, no, Colombian food.

John Casto: Well, let's not, let's not make Colombian food sound bad.

I'm excited to move there next week, so. Ah, good, good, good, good. Yeah, no, I was actually in Portugal in 20, last year, a year and a half ago.

Ian Fernando: Yeah. It was awesome. Dude, I mean, it's just the weather. The sun doesn't set till like 9 p. m., which is crazy because you're like literally on the rooftop and it's like 9 o'clock.

You're like, what? It's still light? It's crazy. You know, so yeah, I love it, Dan. Food, the ocean views, the women there. The people. Yeah,

John Casto: agreed. So tell everyone your story about how you got into Affiliate Legion, all of the things, because you're one of the OG's

Ian Fernando: in this space. Yeah, I mean, it's a good story to tell.

I think everybody finds it very inspirational. Um, so when I first started in the online space, right, I didn't really think of myself as a marketer or any I'm in right now because I started with three jobs and I wanted to really just have one job at the end of the day. I was a, uh, call center agent, um, a human resource manager and a waiter on the weekends.

So I was literally working like seven days a week. You got started

John Casto: in call centers, not even as

Ian Fernando: Yeah, nah, dude, yeah, dude, I was, uh, Cause when you grow up the way I grew up, especially with like Asian parents, They always want you to be like, hey, go to school, finish college, do this, be a nerd. Traditional path.

Yeah, traditional path. You're Filipino? Yeah, I am Filipino, yeah. But luckily What? In New Jersey, Jersey City. Yeah, close enough. Just across the river, right? But, um, again, I wanted to just get rid of I have two jobs because eventually my goal is to just have one job and everybody's like, Oh, yeah, you'll have one job.

I'm making good at that job. But then eventually I've been climbing the job so fast. I went from call center agent to analyst to senior analyst to like, um, the voice analyst, right? And, uh, Next position would be director, but I was not able to get that job even though I applied for it so many times and I knew I was qualified for it, but they would never give it to me because I think I was just too young.

I was like 22. Where was this? Uh, Advantage. Yeah. Here in like, Jersey? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice. And then eventually, um, after getting rid of those two jobs, I was like, you know what, if I can get rid of two, am I able to get the last one, right? And I'm like, okay, let me take this risk. I had three months of savings.

And then I got into affiliate marketing through Google first doing, uh, tax. What year? I want to say, let's see, 2004. 2004? Yeah,

John Casto: yeah, yeah. When did they start running AdWords?

Ian Fernando: Dude, 2002. 2003? Well, 2002. I remember 2002 when I first

John Casto: started. It was like you and Gary Vaynerchuk. Yeah. Running like five second cost per click.

Ian Fernando: watch his, uh, you know, those shitty wine videos back in the day he had. I mean, yeah, and he's still doing it. He cleaned up, man. Yeah, and now, He banked

John Casto: by like 32 off Google ads.

Ian Fernando: Yeah, yeah. You know, so, um, and then I took the risk and then I was like, all right, I did it. And then eventually I got into depression and all this shit because I didn't think I was like, uh, doing well enough.

I always thought, oh, I got it during luck. It was perfect timing because I really didn't have a skill set of marketing. Right. So, but it's all compound learning and that's kind of how I got into it. So where did that go from there? To now. Well, I mean. That's a big, that's

John Casto: like, dude, almost 20 freaking years.

Yeah. So what happened, like let's, like walk me through like 2010 to 2015. So you're running offers from 2004.

Ian Fernando: Well, so 2010 I first sold my first software company, uh, Offersnitch. Right, Offersnitch was a tracking platform that. How did you

John Casto: skip all this? Like, hold on, you were running Google Ads a second ago, and then you got the software, you exited the software.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fill that, fill that gap real quick.

Ian Fernando: Uh, so, I was just running campaigns. I remember working with Zoogle Ads, uh, and Never Blue. They helped me with my campaigns. They assigned me a strategist. And then I was just running, uh, lead gen. Mostly in finance. More of like the insurance, uh, subprime area, um, taxes.

Your own landing pages, or? Yeah, all landing pages. Yeah,

John Casto: all landing pages. So you like posted data, like old school web hooks. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ian Fernando: I mean, no za Yeah, no Zapier. Yeah. No za beer. I mean, I, my, I remember my first go campaign was, um, uh, ringtones. I made so much million ringtones. , right? Like, it was crazy.

John Casto: that's how old I am, man. I, I had

Ian Fernando: ringtones too. Yeah, ringtones was, was the one. And then, I mean, I did a lot of stuff from blogging. I did a lot of info marketing. I did, um, you know, white label. I pretty much did everything online. I signed up for every, every server that's also signed up.

So, I mean. There's so much I've done, you know, eBay, everything online, that's what I've done, right? So, I mean, one of the things I did was, uh, just to go back track a little bit, when I started eBay, I had, it became pretty successful that everybody wanted to buy in bulk, but I was not able to handle customer support, so I googled how to make money without customers, and that's how I found Fulfill Your Marketing, right?

And that's why, where I'm at today, yeah, so. So, you,

John Casto: you built a SaaS, and then. That was, was that like a spy tool

Ian Fernando: almost, or was it a dash? No, it was, it was a, so the biggest issue back in the day were the affiliate markers that landing pages or offers would go down. Right, and the network would never tell you.

So, there might be this 15 20 minute gap where the page goes down, you're sending traffic and you lose money. Right, for people that are doing 100 a day, it doesn't really affect them. But for people that are spending like a couple thousand a day, it affects me, right. So I made this tracker where it would Detect the page, take a snapshot of the page, look at the HTML code, did it redirect to another offer, and then it will just be like, hey, did this page change?

Um, just sort of time stamp when we noticed it, and then I can always be like, hey, you owe me X amount, at least credit, for the draft I spent, right? And the other main reason is, I noticed one network was stealing from me. So I would notice my link URL changed URL parameters, especially the affiliate ID.

They've redirected it. Yeah, they've redirected it to another, yeah. And it would happen exactly every day at a specific time. And I'm like, why does this dip happen, right? Again, for somebody that's doing 100 a day. You don't even see it, right? For a person that sees high volume, when you see a small dip every day, you're like, why is that happening?

So I was curious. So I would always look, look at it, but this network was literally stealing like 0. 05, 1 percent of my traffic skimming, just skimming. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not even saving just, you

John Casto: know, straight skim automatically in their code. Just cut them off

Ian Fernando: from these hours. Yup. And then I sold it to Venture Cap, uh, Venture Fund in Atlanta, moved to Atlanta for a year.

And then after that, uh, moved to Florida and then did affiliate marketing. I mean, I mean, you ask me what do you want to know? I did everything. I sold two software companies, sold software code. I mean, I do Amazon.

John Casto: I know you're with Jace and A4D now. Yeah,

Ian Fernando: more recently, I'm with A4D now. Um, I basically oversee the network, helping both publishers and advertisers, um, scale their businesses.

Uh, to me, this is a new venture, right? Because being an affiliate, you're just constantly media buying, you're always having ups and downs. And for me, I'm at a point in my career where, what does Ian Fernando do next, right? Does Ian Fernando build another software company, does he do this, right, so this might sound ignorant but sometimes like I get bored of making money, right.

If I make a product. I don't know if that sounds ignorant. I mean like by the time I make a product and I make it 100, I'm like oh, I made it 100, I can probably scale it to 10K a month. But then I'm like, that doesn't excite me anymore. Doesn't fill the cup for you. Yeah, exactly. So. What does excite you, man?

I don't know. That's why I'm figuring it out. So during the pandemic, I started consulting a lot. I'm hopeful to talk to a lot of CEOs, get what they, what they, you know, wake up every morning to, uh, Jason was just reached out to me, um, to help their publishers grow on the network. And then eventually, uh, I oversee now the network, uh, full scale.

And I think this is a good challenge for me because even though I've ran businesses and with team, this is a very different dynamic because in something, you know, Since I know both publisher side and I know both advertiser side, because I used to be an advertiser, Nutra, and all this other stuff, I see both dimensions, and then how do I mend them together to make it a nice, really boutique network for, like, the high ballers.

You know what I mean? So, it's a good dynamic. Jason gives me a lot of good feedback. You know, it's like, his insights in, like, business is very interesting. It's just because the way He looks at it at such a micro level as to why are you running this versus Not doing that. And it's very, like, micro. Very, like, meticulous.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he breaks it down, and instead of me, like, I can see the end picture. The problem is, I'm going through a tunnel, but I just don't see the roadblocks. Whereas, he's like, well, let's just take two steps forward. Let me dissect the problem. What happened in two steps? Why did, we're not, we're not able to go forward?

Are we moving forward, back? Right? Was it a wall? Was it a bump? How big, how big is that bump in front of you? That's how he is, where I'm like, I see it, let me just run. But then I'll just hit the wall. Yeah. And I'll figure it out, let me feel the walls a little bit, feel the walls a little bit here. That's how I do things, whereas he actually looks at, well, there's a puddle there.

Should we patch up the puddle first so we can run, right? The way he thinks is very, very unique, and I really appreciate how he's been teaching me so far. Do you

John Casto: enjoy the learning process with him, or the work more?

Ian Fernando: Conversations, I guess. So, learning, right? Uh, cause the way he looks at it, again, is, is very, it, it triggers something in my head that I haven't had in a very, very long time, right?

It's like stimulating. Yeah, stimulating. Like, he makes me think. And then, even though I think I'd done it, uh, the right way, where, what he's expecting, he comes back with something better. I'm like, ah, I knew I should've done that,

John Casto: right? And like, I'm like, I knew it. Now you know. Yeah,

Ian Fernando: yeah, now I know. Yeah, yeah.

Do you feel like you're growing? Um, right now, I am in discovery mode. So, I don't think I haven't grown in a year and a half. Did

John Casto: you feel like you were growing? Oh. Or did you

Ian Fernando: feel like you were It's still, I think I'm just still in this mode of, even at, even at A4D right now, even though Jason gives me the feedback, um, The conversations are very unique, but I also have to grow the network, right?

So, there's that balance of am I growing or is the network growing, right? So, it's a little difficult to really, really say, but I find it exciting, but um, for my personal growth, I'm pretty much still stagnant there.

John Casto: If you didn't do this, if you stopped doing everything you do right now and you never needed to work again for money, what would you do?

Ian Fernando: Man, so this is a very tough question, because I don't know, because I've done everything. I've traveled. The one thing I wanted to do was basically travel. And I've done that. I've been a digital nomad for the past eight years, living full time. You did it before it was

Well, dude, even my first international trip was to Panama, then Morocco. Morocco, I actually got jumped the first time, so. That's part

Ian Fernando: Yeah, but, uh, yeah, I mean I've traveled and now I just, I have my time and freedom. But everybody tell me Ian should have a family. I'm like, I worked so hard for my time, I'm not sure if I want to give it up yet.

You know. It's a huge sacrifice. I know, so I'm not, I'm not sure yet. It's cool

John Casto: man. Yeah. If it is the right thing,

Ian Fernando: you'll, you'll know. Yeah, dude, like I said, like when I moved to Sao Paulo, two weeks into it, I'm like, Ah, this place reminds me of New York. I want to stay here. So hopefully that will come up.

John Casto: lived outside of the U. S.? Colombia, Venezian,

Ian Fernando: Sao Paulo now? Yeah, Peru, Philippines, Cambodia. Long term, like Oh, long term. Okay, so Vietnam, Philippines Not short term stays. Yeah, so Vietnam two years, Philippines two years, Thailand a year, Colombia two years, Dominican Republic two years, and then Brazil, six months beginning this year,

John Casto: January.

How would you rank those in order from, not counting Brazil, because it's only been six months. How would you rank those destinations in order of like, your favorites to your least

Ian Fernando: desirable? It'd probably be Vietnam first, and every other country, so Vietnam, Philippines, uh, Dominican Republic. I mean, Vietnam just because of the food.

I love the food there. It's delicious. You can get pho literally for breakfast. Yeah, I mean, it's just so cheap, too. Like, you can literally eat for a whole day. I mean, people are

John Casto: awesome and super safe. Yeah, it feels super safe. That always

Ian Fernando: is nice. I agree. I agree. For sure. So, um, but Brazil, I'm definitely gonna put in just top five just because again, I went there and I felt like, damn, this is my place.

I, I just felt instant home. It just felt home for me. So do you feel like you

John Casto: went to Columbia after, not after it was like cool to go as a, as

Ian Fernando: nomad? Well, I, I was there in 2015, so originally my first time. Yeah. So you saw it, you saw

John Casto: it before, yeah. Yeah. It became

Ian Fernando: what? It's today. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, still, I remember going there during, um, Christmas holiday.

And I remember this person just like, Hey, come over. We're going to have dinner here. Uh, let's play some chess. And at that time, it's obviously just a stereotype of it being so dangerous, but I went and just felt super comfortable. And that's how I feel like it is now, right? But, um, it's all about the personality though.

John Casto: What else do you like doing, man? Obviously, well, actually, why do you like traveling so much? What, what interests

Ian Fernando: you about it? So for me, for my brain to be engaging, I need a different scenario. Right, I need, in order for my brain to learn, or pick up, like, I need to see something different where I'm uncomfortable.

Right, so the fastest way I learn a language is usually, I go back to that country, and your brain has this intuition of survival for the first two weeks, that the absorption rate is so fast, that you can learn anything. Pretty fast within that first two weeks. It's like the subconscious

John Casto: is more open and

Ian Fernando: receptive.

Yeah, because your brain is like, Oh, your brain needs to be more open to see what's around you. Yeah, correct. Like, what do I need to absorb? What do I need to not absorb? Where am I on the map? Right? You absorb that so quickly. So I try to take advantage of that, of that two weeks. But, uh, the traveling for me is because my brain needs, uh, stimulus.

Once I get too routine, I'm like, uh, I need to go travel up north or somewhere here. But at least Brazil is so big that You

John Casto: speak obviously English, Spanish,

Ian Fernando: Tagalog, obviously I don't.

John Casto: Some Portuguese,

Ian Fernando: it's getting there. And what else? I speak a little Arabic, I speak a little bit of Vietnamese. Vietnamese, even though I speak it.

Right. They don't understand it for some reason. It's probably a tonal thing and a little bit of time. That's cool, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, that's who I am. What

John Casto: are you excited about now, like today? Here it is, what, it's August, basically. 2023. What are you excited about personally and professionally?

Ian Fernando: Personally, I want to see what, where I can be. Like that, that is, like once I hit that discovery mode, I'm like, oh, Ian. This is what you're going to be at. I think that's where I'll be excited. But in the meantime, for me, I just need to get more of my physique going. I'm getting old. I'm shrinking. Do Jiu Jitsu, man.

Dude, everybody's telling me to do Jiu you want if you do it. Dude, everybody's telling me, even Brazilians tell me to do Jiu Jitsu. Yeah, you live it.

John Casto: Dude, come on, bro. You're killing me right now. There's no reason you shouldn't be. You're in the Mecca. Yeah,

Ian Fernando: I know, I

John Casto: know, I know. Easiest way to stay in like pretty darn good shape and literally eat and drink whatever you want.

Ian Fernando: drink every day is my problem, too. This would actually solve that All right What professionally for us me? I'm not sure yet that it's all in question. I don't know what I'd want to be her I don't know what I want to be when I grow up.

John Casto: I feel like you're on the hero's journey, like you're on like a quest.

Yeah, it is, it like these side quests, and you just haven't figured out where you're gonna land.

Ian Fernando: Yeah, I mean it's very interesting, you know, like, I don't meet a lot of people that are in my scenario, where some people were like, oh yeah, I have this, now I'm doing this, and they're excited about it. Whereas like, I can do those things, but they don't excite me.

I need something that's like, exciting, and stimulating, and challenging.

Ian Fernando: when I was living in the Philippines, I was gonna do an accelerator. But, the reason why that bored the shit out of me, is because There's so much red tape in the Philippines that I was not able to get up my accelerator. So I was like, you know what, I don't want to do this.

Bureaucracy in the Philippines

Ian Fernando: social work. So I'm like, nope, I don't want to do it. You know, but I don't know. I'm, I will, we'll see. You know what I mean? So. You like teaching, right? I like coaching, not teaching. Right, I'm not a good teacher at all, I'd rather be a better, I'm a far better coach just because I can see like, oh, your campaign, you've launched it, you're landing page, you actually have a little knowledge, let me now just try to guide you in this path a little bit.

Right. So I'm a better coach, not, not teacher for sure. Cause I'm very impatient. I can't, when a person tells me like, what's the landing page, I'm like, here, take your money back. I can't, I can't deal with it.

John Casto: Well, you're at a point where you want to, you got to pick and choose. You have

Ian Fernando: to pick and choose.

Yeah, of course. Like when I work with clients and during the pandemic, like I would only have like a couple of clients, but they all pay me like five figures a month. Right. Because. Luckily for me, my, my name and my brand and obviously like after conversations and talking to them on the phone, like they know that I'm not a bullshitter.

John Casto: What else should people know about you? What's like a last, last idea or even like word of advice you want to share? I

Ian Fernando: used to be a breakdancer. Can you still do it? I can. We can get some footage. I used to be a choreographer. Um, so I used to do dance classes, uh, back in Jersey. I used to run a dance. Class when I was in college at Lockhaven, and I used to be a breaker.

How's your bachata and salsa? My bachata is very good since I learned it in Dominican Republic. Salsa, pretty, pretty okay. I just have to pick the tones up. The swinging and stuff I can't do in salsa. Yeah, so everything else, I'm fine. Yeah.

John Casto: Any, any, uh, words of advice for, for, let's talk through the affiliates.

Share a piece of advice for someone new to the affiliate space or thinking of getting in and then share advice for someone that Hasn't reached your level of success, but is on their way

Ian Fernando: up. I think for both would be to collect data, right? I've always I've made a mistake in past of having so much data, but not Utilizing it at the best possible way.

So, your strategy should always be with a lead gen strategy of collecting, and then optimizing, right? Um, I think that's the huge mistake. I know, for me, I've had millions of records, and I've really sold them in real time because my argument was like, oh, why should I do 10, 000 extra a month when I could spend more effort and make 10, 000 extra a day?

Just scale up the front ends. Yeah, exactly. This is literally what I'm working on. Yeah. So it's not always be data centric first and then optimize next. So, yeah. Appreciate it, brother.

John Casto: Thank you. Tell the next party, the next event, the

Ian Fernando: next club, we'll probably get

John Casto: more footage of him.

Ian Fernando: Let's see. No, no, no. You won't to meet club.

You will meet me at a conference like we are now. guys. Appreciate you, man. Thank you. Of course. Thanks. That was cool, man. Thanks. Thanks.

John Casto: Thanks. Appreciate it. Yeah. Let me know. Like.

I remember the thrill of living out of a suitcase. The constant change of scenery, the adrenaline rush of new languages and experiences? Yeah, me too. But after 8 years of hopping from Airbnb to Airbnb, my nomad's heart started yearning for something different. Not another postcard sunset, not another bustling market bargain. What I craved was the sweet ache of missing my bed and the comfort of a routine.

São Paulo, the electrifying concrete jungle of Brazil, wasn't just another stop on my itinerary. It was a love story that began two years ago. After soaking up the sun-kissed beaches of Rio, I stumbled into this urban labyrinth and boom! My senses exploded. The symphony of a thousand languages dancing on the wind, the towering skyscrapers scraping the clouds, the kaleidoscope of murals splashed across every corner – it was New York reinvented by sunlight and samba.

And then there was the food. Oh, the food! Each bite is a fiesta of flavors, a vibrant tapestry woven from spices, fire, and pure, unadulterated passion. Each dish whispered stories of distant lands, of colonial legacies, and of immigrant dreams. My taste buds went on a perpetual vacation, never bored, always surprised.

Read my Not Your Broke Travel Influencer Food Reviews >>

Suddenly, the endless possibilities I once sought in far-flung destinations began to reveal themselves right here, under the Paulista sun. The endless dance of possibilities, the constant hum of creativity, and the infectious energy of a city always on the move – São Paulo had it all, and then some.

So, I traded my backpack for a cozy apartment and my plane tickets for a constant Uber ride. And as I sink into the familiar groove of this pulsating metropolis, I realize that sometimes the greatest adventure isn't just about going places. It's about finding a home in the most unexpected corners and embracing the rhythm of a city that beats like your own heart.

Come along, and let's explore why this concrete jungle might be the perfect place to swap your wanderlust for a warm bed and a city that whispers, "Welcome home."

Saving & Savoring in São Paulo

I've touched down in over 40 countries, lived in 5, and can tell you one thing for sure: traveling and living are two different beasts. Sure, São Paulo might not be the cheapest city on the map, but compared to other global hubs, it offers a surprising level of affordability, especially if you know where to look (and where to indulge!).

High-Rise Homes, Happy Wallets

Accommodation might be the priciest item on the menu, but remember, a comfortable apartment is your launching pad for adventure, not just a crash pad. You can snag a stylish studio in a safe neighborhood for around $500 per month, a far cry from Manhattan or Tokyo rents. Think bright apartments with balconies overlooking lively streets, a haven for inspiration and productivity.

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A post shared by Ian Fernando (@ianternet)

Food Fit for Foodies (Without Breaking the Bank)

Now, onto the real star of the show – the food! My fellow Michelin-loving friend, rejoice! You can enjoy a multicourse feast at a top-notch restaurant for a fraction of what you'd pay in New York—craving fresh seafood in bustling Rua Teodoro Sampaio? Splurge on a decadent lobster dish for under $30. Want to sample the Michelin-starred magic of D.O.M? Prepare to be dazzled (and a tad lighter in the wallet) at around $200 per person. But for everyday culinary adventures, São Paulo is a haven. Local markets teem with exotic fruits, street vendors whip up sizzling skewers for pennies, and cozy cafes offer steaming plates of feijoada for under $10. The food here is an experience, not an expense.

Uber to Anywhere (Without the Uber-Ouch)

Forget overpriced taxis! Zipping around the city in an Uber is ridiculously affordable. A quick ride across town might cost you a mere $3. Need to escape to the lush Atlantic Forest on the weekend? A comfortable UberXL could set you back around $10. Compared to sky-high cab fares in other metros, São Paulo's Uber scene is a sweet symphony for your wallet.

Electronics Enigma

Yes, electronics might be the one outlier in the affordability equation. Blame import taxes and a complex distribution network for prices that can make your eyebrows do the samba. But hey, that just means you'll appreciate your sleek new gadget even more when you finally snag it!

In the end, living in São Paulo is all about striking a balance. Savor the Michelin magic once a month, fuel your entrepreneurial spirit with budget-friendly bites in between, and let those Uber wheels whisk you away to new adventures.

Your bank account will thank you, your taste buds will sing, and your entrepreneurial spirit will soar. Remember, it's not about how much you spend, but how well you spend it. São Paulo, with its open arms and affordable (mostly) charm, is the perfect playground for savvy spenders like us.

Melting Pot Where Identities Blend

Forget New York's melting pot; São Paulo is a kaleidoscope of cultures, where identities swirl and blend, creating something far richer and more complex.

Here, you won't find neatly segregated enclaves like "Little Italy" or "Chinatown." Instead, you'll stumble upon German bakeries tucked away in Japanese neighborhoods, Syrian restaurants pulsating with Brazilian samba, and Lebanese families proudly waving the green and gold flag during Carnaval.

This isn't just accidental mixing; it's intentional embracing. Unlike the "hyphenated American" phenomenon in the US, Paulistanos wear their heritage like a badge of honor, but they also wear the Brazilian flag with equal pride. It's a symphony where individual notes weave together to create a richer, more harmonious melody.

Art on Every Corner, Creativity in Every Soul:

Walk down any Paulista street, and you'll be bombarded by an explosion of colors. Towering skyscrapers become canvases for jaw-dropping murals, each stroke telling a story and each splash of paint celebrating diversity. Street artists dance like modern-day Picassos, transforming concrete jungles into open-air galleries.

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A post shared by Ian Fernando (@ianternet)

This artistic fire isn't confined to walls. It pulsates in the pulsating rhythm of samba drumming, the electrifying choreography of capoeira, and the poignant lyrics of bossa nova. Every Paulistano seems to carry a spark of creativity, a brushstroke of brilliance waiting to burst forth.

Carnaval: A Celebration of Unity in Diversity

And if you want to see this cultural tapestry come alive in a whirlwind of passion, witness Carnaval. Forget Rio's glitzy floats; São Paulo's Carnaval is a street party with a pulsating heart where everyone joins the dance. Thousands of Paulistanos from all walks of life don their costumes, grab their drums, and paint the streets with their shared love for their city and their heritage.

Here, being Lebanese doesn't mean you can't samba. Being Japanese doesn't mean you can't wear the feathered headdress of an indigenous warrior. It's a joyous explosion of unity, where differences become strengths, and the city vibrates with the rhythm of a single, beating heart.

The Rich Blend that Fuels My Passion:

Living in São Paulo has been a revelation. It's shown me that diversity isn't just a word; it's a vibrant dance, a delicious feast, and a symphony of colors and rhythms. It's a constant reminder that the world is not a collection of separate boxes but a beautiful, messy, interconnected tapestry.

And this is why I'm in love with São Paulo. It's not just a city; it's a living, breathing testament to the power of unity in diversity, a place where cultures interweave to create something truly magical. So, come dance with us, paint your colors on this canvas, and let the Paulistano spirit ignite your spark of creativity. Just be warned, a bit of São Paulo might just stick to your soul, as it has to mine.

Fresh off Affiliate World Asia 2023 in Bangkok on December 7-8, I'm still buzzing with energy and insight from the conference. However, this year's event felt different, with a subtle undercurrent of curiosity and uncertainty.

The recent acquisition of Affiliate World by a new corporate player cast a slight shadow, raising questions about changes to this beloved community event. Would the new owners alter the nature of the Affiliate World Conference?

Despite the uncertainty, one aspect remained steadfast: the phenomenal community. Kudos to the Affiliate World team for pulling off another spectacular event, truly "by affiliates, for affiliates." I felt that same sense of community, camaraderie, and partnership among fellow affiliate marketers from around the globe.

Now, I want to dive deeper into my key observations from Affiliate World Asia: Bangkok 2023, including both exciting developments and cautious concerns about the conference's future evolution. Prepare for a whirlwind tour of the sessions, networking, tools, and talking points that stood out this year.

There is tremendous value at this conference, but there are also unanswered questions about changes under the new ownership. So buckle up, fellow affiliates, as we explore the exhilarating yet unpredictable waters ahead for the future of Affiliate World Asia! I aim to provide my perspective as an experienced attendee, including both optimistic possibilities and worries about the corporate influence on this gathering.

Day 0: Bangkok Blitz

The unrelenting Bangkok humidity clung to me like a second skin as I touched down on December 5th, one day before Affiliate World Asia officially commenced. Jet lag? Not a chance. My agenda overflowed with pre-event meetups, promising a whirlwind of reconnecting and networking before the conference madness kicked off.

The day rushed by in a blur of familiar faces and new connections. The Affiliate Business Club meetup pulsated with vibrant energy, the air thick with entrepreneurial enthusiasm. Dinner invitations flew as fast as confetti, each one an opportunity to reconnect with old friends and forge strategic alliances with newcomers.

Then came the Propeller Meetup, a vibrant hub of digital marketers from entrepreneurs to businesses It was meet-up after meet-up, a never-ending carousel of handshakes, business cards, and shared stories.

Two AWA had passed since I last graced the halls of Affiliate World Asia, and the reunion was electric. It was like stepping back into a family reunion, the warmth of friends and media buyers washing over me. Laughter echoed through the air as we reminisced about past conferences and hatched plans for the future.

Day Zero wasn't just a pitstop before the main event. It was a whirlwind in its own right, a microcosm of the vibrant, diverse, and dynamic world of affiliate marketing. It was a reminder of the power of connection, the fuel that drives our industry, and as I drifted off to sleep that night, the anticipation for the official conference kickoff crackled in the air – a promise of knowledge bombs, game-changing strategies, and a chance to dive even deeper into the community that makes this world tick.

As night fell, the reunions continued under Bangkok's twinkling lights. Bottles clinked, industry secrets were whispered, and dormant relationships reignited with renewed passion.

Day 1: Mixed Bag of Feelings

Battling jetlag and fueled by coffee, I plunged into the heart of Affiliate World Asia on Day 1. The usual 11am start felt like a welcome respite, but a snafu greeted me; my name was already checked in! Someone checked in as me, Ian Fernando! Who in the hell...

This was a first for me, but I mean, who wouldn't want to be me...

An unexpected 40-minute wait while they validated my ID left me curious. Was this a new security measure? Even scanning into the show floor was different. Gone were the badge scans with your image popping up, replaced by a simple scan-in, scan-out system. This change felt significant, hinting at potential shifts in the conference's approach.

Read about the Retina Scan at Affiliate World Here.

The first impression of the show floor was... crowded. Gone were the spacious areas for networking and deal-making that defined past Affiliate World experiences—instead, a sea of booths filled every corner, even the perimeter! Smaller booths dominated the landscape, with only one small cafe offering a refuge. My attention was drawn to the abundance of gambling and crypto booths, a likely consequence of the Sigma partnership.

Here, they purposely had fun networking floors to do business because, as affiliates, we want to conduct business in a comfortable zone, and the energy of the show floor brings that, but in a more relaxed environment.

Stepping outside, the networking areas were similarly cramped. An oxygen bar and a small cafe were the only solace. The iWin booth with gameplay was a novelty, but it lacked the usual sponsored networking spaces and collaborative environments.

Fun seemed to be in short supply. The lack of entertainment and relaxation options contrasted sharply with past conferences, where breaks from business were encouraged. This absence felt like a missed opportunity to foster genuine connections outside of the pressure of deals and pitches.

Then came the audio issues. The main stage presentation I attended was delayed by 20–30 minutes, and upon speaking with others, I discovered this was a recurring theme. Technical glitches and delays cast a shadow on the day's proceedings.

Day 1 was a mixed bag of surprises, both welcome and unwelcome. The shift in layout, the technical difficulties, and the focus on smaller booths hint at a new direction for Affiliate World Asia. While some elements felt like improvements, others left me yearning for the familiar, more relaxed atmosphere of past conferences. Only time will tell if these changes ultimately enhance the experience for the vibrant community that makes this event so special.

Day 2: Networking

Day two was a whirlwind of familiar faces and fresh connections. I ditched the late nights, opting for a focused morning at the booths. The show floor was still bustling, though admittedly feeling smaller than in previous years. But quantity wasn't the goal; it was quality. I met with key partners, explored exciting new offerings, and rekindled the flame of old friendships.

Lunch with fellow affiliates and pals from the industry was the perfect mid-day break, filled with laughter and industry insights. These shows are more than just business; they're the glue that binds our vibrant community. Beyond Skype chats and WhatsApp groups, it's where we connect, share triumphs and challenges, and build bonds that fuel our success. Seeing old partners and colleagues who've played a part in my journey—was the true gold of this conference.

What is Next for Affiliate World?

As for the future of the Affiliate World? It's a curious landscape. The recent changes, while understandable, have undoubtedly altered the experience. Some elements are missing: the spaces for casual interaction and the spontaneous fun that made these conferences truly special.

But here's the thing: Affiliate World has always been about the people and the community, and that spirit, that spark of connection, still burns bright. Whether the layout changes or booths get smaller, the core value of these events remains the chance to forge lasting relationships, learn from each other, and fuel our collective growth.

I'm curious to know: where did the 5,000 affiliates go? This was a mixed bag of gamers, crypto bros, gambling marketers, and traditional media buyers. The crowd was different, but I was fine with that. It was the palpable shift in the overall show energy that got me thinking - what is happening here?

In the past, this hall would be overflowing with affiliates from all niches mingling, networking, and sharing ideas. I'm all for newcomers, fresh perspectives, and evolving with the times. But I couldn't shake the feeling that the heart and soul of Affiliate World Asia was slipping away, and along with it, the tight-knit community that fueled such breakthrough success year after year.

So, while I may miss the spacious networking areas and late-night shenanigans, I wholeheartedly believe that the essence of Affiliate World endures. It's about the friendships we build, the knowledge we share, and the passion we hold for this dynamic, ever-evolving industry. And that, my friends, is a force no acquisition or change in layout can ever dim.

As I reflect on Affiliate World Asia: Bangkok 2023, I can't help but worry if the carefree and community-driven spirit that makes this conference so special is beginning to dwindle. With the recent corporate acquisition, there are subtle signs of a shift towards a more formulaic event optimized for cost and efficiency.

Don't get me wrong, I genuinely understand the rationale behind streamlining operations. Running global conferences at scale is an immense undertaking, so some structural improvements make good business sense. However, I would hate to see Affiliate World lose its affiliate-centric soul in the process.

I love this industry. More pictures here...

Since starting pay per call campaigns last year, at the end of 2022, I've been intrigued by the idea of determining call quality. I'm just curious about data all the time.

I wanted to know how I could use the context of a conversation to help build better experiences for advertisers, which would then hopefully result in better relationships and payouts.

That's why I'm excited to share with you how I use AI to transcribe audio in real time and then get a sentiment score from it.

Why Get the Sentiment of Your Audio Calls?

Stock market traders use sentiment analysis all the time to get a sense of where the market is moving. They analyze articles, community forums, and other sources to understand the overall attitude of the market before making a decision.

We can do the same thing with affiliate marketing calls. Since most call-tracking platforms record calls, you can easily transcribe them with AI. This can be done manually, but there are also automation tools available that make the process even easier.

Once you have transcribed your calls, you can use sentiment analysis to identify the overall tone and attitude of the caller. This information can be used to improve your affiliate marketing campaigns in a number of ways:

Overall, getting the sentiment of your affiliate marketing calls is a valuable way to improve your results. It can help you choose better products and services to promote, create more effective marketing materials, and improve your overall campaign.

Using Webhooks to Download Call Audio

If you happen to be using Ringba or Retreaver, and I've personally used both of these platforms, you have the capability to obtain the audio URL via a webhook integration. Here's how it's done with Retreaver:

Within the Retreaver platform, navigate to the campaign level and access the WebHooks settings.

What does in this context is capture the URL pointing to the audio file, and subsequently, it downloads the audio content. The downloaded audio file is then automatically stored in your Google Drive.

Here's an overview of my workflow:

Transcribe Audio with AI

Within the ecosystem, I utilize EdenAI's versatile suite of AI services to facilitate transcription. This unique feature allows me to select from various transcription AI services, and my choice for this task is Assembly AI, renowned for its accuracy and proficiency in transcribing calls.

The process begins by taking your recorded calls and converting them into a coherent and easily readable textual format. This transcription serves as a crucial foundation for further analysis and review.

After the transcription, I use another AI service to provide an in-depth assessment of the overall sentiment conveyed in the conversation. It's important to note that determining the overall sentiment alone does not always reveal the potential for the caller to continue or take specific actions. Therefore, I take an extra step by assigning a numerical score to the sentiment analysis results.

This scoring process adds a layer of granularity, allowing me to make more precise judgments based on the sentiment data. The score provides a quantitative measure of the caller's disposition, aiding in identifying not only their overall sentiment but also the likelihood of their future engagement.

Use this AI Template

Once these processes are completed, I instruct to compile the information into a Google Sheet for easy access and review. I can quickly peruse the transcriptions in this spreadsheet, review the overall sentiment ratings, and analyze the accompanying scores.

This comprehensive approach ensures that I have a clear understanding of the communication's content, sentiment, and potential impact, facilitating informed decision-making and action.

That's the entire process, and now you have a powerful tool to thoroughly review your calls, ensuring the legitimacy of the leads you send to your advertisers. This becomes especially crucial when addressing any potential quality-related disputes that may arise.

By retaining hard evidence, you can definitively demonstrate the variance in call quality, providing clear and indisputable support for your claims.

The advantage of implementing this system extends beyond call quality assurance. It can be harnessed to expand the depth and breadth of your audience pixels, allowing you to refine your targeting strategies and reach the precise audience segments that are most pertinent to your affiliate campaigns. This enhanced precision and granularity in audience targeting significantly elevates the effectiveness and performance of your marketing efforts.

I might do another post on that later on. If you know me, I like manually firing pixels to create a comprehensive audience pixel.

Use AI to Improve Your Calls Campaigns

TikTok has exploded in popularity over the last few years. The short-form video app now has over 1 billion monthly active users, making it a prime platform for advertisers.

However, running successful TikTok ad campaigns can be challenging. With so much content and competition, how do you stand out?

That's where TikTok ad spy tools come in handy. These tools allow you to research what's working for top brands and influencers on TikTok, so you can model their success.

In this post, I'll show you how to use ad spy tools like Anstrex to optimize your TikTok ads and get better results.

Step 1: Find Top Performing TikTok Ads in Your Niche

The first step is using an ad spy tool to discover the highest performing TikTok ads relevant to your niche, industry, or target audience.

With Anstrex, you can search through a database of over 4 billion TikTok ads. Filter by category, likes, comments, shares, and more to see the top ads.

This helps reveal what types of videos, captions, sounds, hashtags, and creative styles resonate most with your target audience on TikTok.

Step 2: Analyze Successful Ad Elements

Now take a closer look at the top performing ads that surfaced in your search.

Pay attention to elements like:

Look for patterns in the highest performing TikTok ads that you can model and test in your own campaigns. This spy tool lets you export and save ads to analyze further.

With just a few clicks, you can see important stats on an ad's overall reach, engagement, demographics, and more. This high-level view equips you with the full picture of why a TikTok ad is resonating, so you can apply those winning factors to your own campaigns. Having access to performance metrics and engagement data is invaluable for optimizing your ads.

Here you can view how many total ads an advertiser is currently running. This provides useful context for the overall health and optimization strategy behind their TikTok ad campaigns. Seeing the volume of ads and ongoing tests indicates how committed an advertiser is to the platform.

It also suggests they likely have robust budgets and data to continuously refine their ads and creativity. As you analyze high-performing ads, note advertisers running multiple sophisticated campaigns as they offer more learning opportunities.

The number of active ads can indicate the depth of resources and iteration being applied to perfect their creativity and strategy over time.

See Which Ads are Performing

Step 3: Apply Winning Elements to Your Ads

Use what you learned from analyzing top ads to optimize your own TikTok ad creative and strategy.

Some ways to apply what's working:

While you don't want to duplicate content outright, this informed experimentation and adaptation of elements will give your TikTok ad creative more chance for success, given the specific evidence.

Step 4: A/B Test New Versions Against Old Ads

The key is to rigorously test your new "spy ad versions" against old creative and copy using A/B split testing.

This involves setting up two identical campaigns, except Campaign A runs your old ads while Campaign B runs your new ads optimized based on spy tool insights.

You want to pay close attention to key metrics like:

Monitor these metrics over the full run of the test campaign and see which version is performing better overall. The spy tool insights are validated if your new ads are outperforming old creatives across relevant metrics.

Be sure to only test one major variable at a time.

For example, in the first test, just the video creative changes while keeping the ad copy the same. Next, you can test just changing the caption copy while the visuals remain static. This isolation helps reveal what specific elements of your optimized ads are moving the needle in your favor.

With rigorous A/B testing, you gain statistical confidence that your TikTok ad spy findings translate into better real-world performance and results. This fuels further optimization and refinement over time.

Ready to Boost Your TikTok Ads?

TikTok ad spying equips you with data-driven insights on what performs best on the platform right now. This takes much of the guesswork out of optimizing campaigns.

Tools like Anstrex Instream make it simple to quickly find winning ad examples in your niche so you can replicate their success.

Remember to systematically test new versions against old ones using what you learn. With this strategy, your TikTok ad results will reach new heights!

Get Started with Anstrex Today

In the past, I have extensively reviewed and compared various affiliate tracking platforms in order to provide recommendations on the best options for affiliate marketers' needs. After testing out the ClickFlare tracking software extensively during its beta testing phases, I can confidently say that it stands out as an exceptionally powerful tracking solution.

There is no universal approach to digital marketing; strategies need to be tailored for affiliates, agencies, eCommerce businesses, and more based on their specific goals. This is where a versatile platform like ClickFlare really shines. It can cater to a diverse range of online marketers with its robust set of tracking and analytics capabilities.

For affiliate marketers focused on driving conversions and sales through partnerships, ClickFlare provides detailed tracking and attribution modeling. You can pinpoint exactly which channels, campaigns, and partnerships are delivering results, so you can optimize your affiliate efforts accordingly.

Why another affiliate tracker?

Why is the team at Clickflare dedicating effort towards reinventing the wheel by creating yet another affiliate marketing tracker? Developing a robust tracking platform from scratch is an immense undertaking requiring substantial engineering work, ongoing server maintenance, and more.

However, the Clickflare team already has meaningful expertise in this space through their development of TheOptimizer, an AI-powered advertising automation tool. Through conversations with TheOptimizer users, the Clickflare team gained insightful feedback on current pain points and limitations of existing affiliate tracking solutions.

They meticulously compiled a wishlist directly from affiliates, highlighting missing features in trackers they had tried, along with areas of tracks that were too complex or convoluted. Armed with this knowledge, the Clickflare team set out to engineer an affiliate platform that would truly address these gaps and simplify affiliate tracking.

The result is ground-up new tracking software that encompasses the ideal functionality that affiliates themselves ask for. After extensive beta testing and refinement, Clickflare Tracker has emerged as an intuitive yet powerful solution.

I first witnessed a demo of Clickflare affiliate tracking at Affiliate World Barcelona two years ago by Besmir, the core mind behind this software. Since then, I have actively tested and used the platform through its evolutions in the alpha beta stages.

Let's break down Clickflare.

What makes it unique and different?

The interface is fairly familiar with all other tracking tools, stats, and campaign information presented to you at the macro level and has a clean, colorful touch to it. All your main access will be on the far left, giving you a snapshot of all your options.

Let's break it down and expand on three aspects I found, which is the heart of ClickFlare's affiliate tracking platform.

Multiple Campaign Transition Paths

ClickFlare provides robust support for multi-step campaign flows beyond basic direct linking or simple A/B split tests. The platform makes it easy to set up and optimize complex conversion funnels tailored to your goals.

Of course, you can still utilize ClickFlare for traditional affiliate marketing scenarios like sending traffic directly to an offer or A/B testing different landing pages and offer combinations. However, advanced users have much more flexibility.

For example, you can create conditional rules that route traffic through different paths in your funnel based on any metric you are tracking. The conditions are highly customizable; you may send traffic from a specific referrer to a high-ticket offer while traffic from another source goes through a lower-friction multi-step flow with educational content first.

ClickFlare also enables more sophisticated sequencing like listicles and content recommendation engines to engage visitors. The visual campaign builder makes configuring these complex workflows highly intuitive.

Get Started with ClickFlare Today

Populating Direct Linking

One of ClickFlare's most innovative features is the ability to dynamically populate direct affiliate links on your landing pages. This is the first time I've seen a tracker able to insert fully-configured affiliate URLs, including subIDs, variables, and more, right into the page code.

Here's how it works - in your campaign workflow, you select the "Direct" transition to point directly to an offer. Then on your landing page, ClickFlare's script will swap out a placeholder link with your actual affiliate-tagged link.

This avoids intermediate redirects, which could allow networks to detect your redirect URL. By directly sending users to the offer via JS, this concealment issue is eliminated.

The page code itself is quite complex, which speaks to the engineering work needed to enable on-page linking. But as an affiliate, the end result is a streamlined process for concealment and better landing page reuse.

ClickFlare's direct linking innovation solves a major pain point around redirects. This unique capability demonstrates how ClickFlare is pushing affiliate tracking technology forward in creative ways.

Powerful Conversion API

One of the standout features ClickFlare offers is its advanced conversion API (CAPI) integration. While initially setting up CAPI tracking took me some time to figure out, I was really impressed with the level of support. The ClickFlare team provided instant, thorough answers to all my questions during onboarding.

After getting set up with CAPI tracking, I realized just how powerful a capability it provides for affiliate marketers. It gives you full control and flexibility in configuring exactly what conversion data should be passed back to each ad platform.

Too often, affiliates are stuck cobbling together messy workarounds to try and get conversion data back into Facebook, TikTok, Google Ads, and other traffic sources they use. This hinders your ability to properly optimize and scale your campaigns.

With ClickFlare's seamless CAPI integration, you no longer need to waste time wrangling complex tracking solutions. With just a few clicks, you can connect your key advertising accounts and immediately start feeding back rich conversion data to each platform.

This enables you to analyze the true return on ad spend for each traffic source and double down on the highest-performing campaigns. ClickFlare handles all the complexity of conversion tagging and reporting in the background; you just focus on insights.

And the team continues to expand compatibility daily with more ad networks added. No matter what platforms you currently use to drive traffic, ClickFlare likely offers streamlined integration for proper attribution tracking.

Use ClickFlare CAPI Tool Today

Integrated Cost Tracking

As a data-driven affiliate marketer, comprehensive analytics and reporting tools are make-or-break for me. I usually export tracking data and manipulate it in Google Data Studio for additional insights beyond what basic tracking platforms provide.

With ClickFlare, I was pleasantly surprised by the in-depth analytics and customizable reporting built into the platform. The reporting starts at a high-level campaign view and lets you drill down step-by-step into various dimensions: time period, traffic source, offer, and more. This is perfect for my need to slice and dice data.

The dashboard also makes it simple to re-organize reports by setting any tracking parameter as the parent level for analysis. With a click, I can easily analyze performance by an offer, by the network, by day of the week, and so on. This flexibility makes identifying optimization opportunities easy without needing to export data.

But where ClickFlare really differentiates itself is the real-time cost tracking through the integration of advertising accounts (Taboola, Google, Facebook, TikTok). Rather than relying on time-consuming manual uploads of cost data, ClickFlare uses API connections to pull actual ad spend directly from your ad accounts.

This provides up-to-date, accurate data on advertising costs and campaign profitability without all the hassle of spreadsheets. Cost and revenue tracking are unified on one platform for holistic tracking.

Are You Ready to Start with ClickFlare?

There is a lot more to say about ClickFlare, but here are some other things that I think are worth mentioning. If you want to see the full list, check it out here.

Built on the CloudFlare Infrastructure

ClickFlare affiliate tracker runs on CloudFlare's global network, providing significant advantages. This includes leveraging CloudFlare's bot detection capabilities, fast worldwide data centers, and robust cybersecurity features. As a long-time CloudFlare user myself, building on this trusted infrastructure gives me confidence in the platform's performance.

Building on top of CloudFlare tells me the ClickFlare team cares deeply about tracker stability, accuracy, and rapid data processing—areas where CloudFlare excels. This infrastructure decision demonstrates excellent engineering judgment.

Integrated Tag Manager for Flexible Tracking and Integrations

The tracker includes a Google Tag Manager-like built-in tag manager, which I think is an ingenious inclusion. It allows easily deploying tracking pixels and custom events code-free. For example, you can track button clicks, content views, and more and connect this data to pixels on Facebook, TikTok, etc. It's flexible and powerful.

Clear Product Roadmap for Ongoing Improvements

ClickFlare maintains a public roadmap outlining upcoming features and developments. This level of transparency is refreshing and reassures me that regular enhancements are planned to continuously advance the platform.

Should you try another tracker?

While I have covered some of the key capabilities and benefits of using ClickFlare affiliate tracking, there are still many more features worth exploring in depth. The platform contains a robust set of tools to provide in-depth analytics and simplify campaign management for affiliates.

As an experienced affiliate marketer, I have tested out numerous tracking solutions - Voluum, BeMob, RedTrack, my own self-built trackers, and more. After extensive first-hand experience, I can confidently say ClickFlare stacks up extremely well and has become my preferred tracking platform.

Here's why I feel ClickFlare affiliate tracker stands out:

The bottom line is that ClickFlare provides me with the actionable, in-depth data I need as an analytical affiliate marketer in a user-friendly package. For those seeking more advanced tracking capabilities and insights, I highly recommend taking it for a test drive with the free trial. The potential value ClickFlare delivers is immense.

Get Started with ClickFlare Today

As a digital marketer, I was looking for a way to send leads from custom opt-in forms on my website directly into my BeeHiiv account. BeeHiiv's built-in opt-in forms are rather limited, so I wanted more control over the lead capture process on my site without using Make or Zapier.

After some research, I discovered BeeHiiv has an API that allows you to integrate custom forms. However, the documentation was technical, and implementing it seemed complicated.

Rather than go down the plugin route or try to build something from scratch, I decided to take a simpler approach, using AI to generate the code for a custom webhook. This way, I could create a PHP script to handle the form submissions from my site and automatically send the data to my BeeHiiv account.

Power of AI for Custom Marketing Integrations

Getting custom integrations like this BeeHiiv webhook setup can be a headache. I was reading through the API doc and I was lost!

You either have to rely on dev teams and pay high fees or jerry-rig solutions with other automation tools and plugins.

But with the power of AI, I was able to quickly and easily create exactly the integration I needed—no coding expertise required!

Now let's get to the Beehiiv php script to start posting data to your BeeHiiv account.

Getting Your BeeHiiv Credentials

The first step is to get your Publication ID and API key from within your BeeHiiv account:

The Custom Webhook PHP Script

With those credentials, I used Claude to generate a simple PHP script to handle the form POST data and integrate it with the BeeHiiv API.

It handles:

Now I can use this on any custom form by pointing the form action to this PHP file. Whenever someone submits the form, it will automatically send their information to my BeeHiiv account as a new lead!

Here is the simple PHP webhook code that Claude generated for me.


// API endpoint 
$url = '';

// Subscription data
$data = [
  'email' => $_GET['email']

// Initialize cURL
$ch = curl_init($url);

// Set cURL options
curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_RETURNTRANSFER, true);
curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_POST, true);
curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_POSTFIELDS, json_encode($data)); 

// Set headers
curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_HTTPHEADER, [
  'Content-Type: application/json',
  'Authorization: Bearer YOUR_API_KEY' 

// Execute request and get response
$response = curl_exec($ch);

// Close handle 

// Print response
echo $response;


Now that we have the PHP webhook script, we need to connect it to our Avada form. You will simply upload this PHP file on your hosting provider and then copy that URL.

Implementing BeeHiiv Integration Script

But first here are two important steps:

  1. Insert Your Credentials (BOLD)

The first thing is to create the PHP file on your hosting server and enter your actual BeeHiiv credentials inside the script:

This allows the script to access your BeeHiiv account.

  1. Set the Form Action to the Webhook URL (Get)

Now you can either remove the last 2 lines, print response section. It is good to just leave it here for testing. Once it is finalized, you can remove it.

Next, let us implement this into your Avada form. Essentially, you can use this script now in any form. I needed this code for my Avada themed website, but this is a very simple PHP integration code and can be used on any form.

Implementing this Code into Avada Forms

If you're using the Avada WordPress theme as I am, you can easily connect your Avada forms to the BeeHiiv webhook for processing submissions with the PHP code I just provided.

Here's how to set it up:

  1. In Avada > Form > Settings, go to the "Submission" tab.
  2. Set the "Submission URL" to the URL of the BeeHiiv PHP webhook file you created earlier.
  3. Use the GET method for submission rather than POST.
  4. Enable AJAX form submission. This displays a loading icon while the form is processed.
  5. The PHP webhook code doesn't include error handling. So you'll need to add your own redirect in case of errors.

The Avada form has its own basic validation (like required fields, email format, etc.). But any errors from the PHP code won't show up.

And that's it! Now your Avada form will process through the webhook to add leads to your BeeHiiv account automatically.

You can create opt-in forms, contact forms, surveys, and more this way without being limited to BeeHiiv's default options.

AI is the shit!!

Josh Sebo: Today we have industry legend Harrison Gevirtz, as well as another industry legend, Ian Fernando, a super affiliate that's been in the game for over 15 years, who also recently became the VP of network operations at A4D, a company led by Jason Akatiff. Who is a friend of the show that's fully committed to solving your marketing problems through technology.

Ian, I hate to bury the lead, but I know you're in Brazil. Thank you for joining us on the, you know, your side of the, of the world right now. What's going on by you over there? 

Ian Fernando: Doing good. It's uh, pretty cloudy today. We're actually in the fall weather, uh, period of Brazil. Like, Brazil actually has four seasons.

So right now it's actually chilly and... Oh, 

Harrison Gevirtz: and it's backwards. So like, winter is the summer? Or summer is the winter? Like, our summer is your winter? 

Ian Fernando: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So after fall, within July, it'll be winter for sure, 

Harrison Gevirtz: yep. I mean, how cold are we talking? I, like, I was gonna start off and be like, Why are you not at the beach?

And then you answered the question before I could ask. But, like, how cold does it get in the winter in Brazil? I mean, today's 

Ian Fernando: fairly cold. It's, uh, what is it? Like 20 degrees Celsius? 70? 

Harrison Gevirtz: Dude, what? 28 degrees Celsius? Bro, it is, it's like 

Josh Sebo: 70. It's like 35. Look how cold I am. It's like 35 degrees Fahrenheit here in Cleveland, Ohio.

I'm fact checking myself. You're living the good life, my man. That's 

Harrison Gevirtz: sick. Yeah, 20 Celsius. Fahrenheit, which it is like a nice day. It's not that bad. You don't have snow. Like you don't have blizzards, right? No, 

Ian Fernando: no. Well, we do have hail. Like there are days where just poor as hail, so it's like knocking on your window.

I'm like, dude, this break my window shit. But yeah. So Ian, 

Josh Sebo: how long, oh, go ahead. 

Harrison Gevirtz: Yeah, go ahead. How long have you been there 

Ian Fernando: for? Four months already. Uh, I came here last year, was here for three months. After we fell in love with it, it just reminds me of like, New York, and after like two weeks of just being here, I'm like, oh god, I gotta move here.

This is where I want to be based out of now. 

Harrison Gevirtz: Voce fala português? 

Ian Fernando: I don't speak Portuguese. 

Harrison Gevirtz: I asked if he speaks Portuguese. I just googled translate. I didn't know. Oh, okay, 

Josh Sebo: cool. I was like, damn, bro. Okay, 

Ian Fernando: cool. I don't speak Portuguese. 

Harrison Gevirtz: I like you speak it pretty damn well, man. So, you got that going for you.

Josh Sebo: Ian told me he goes out at night and uh... Talks to the locals and that's basically how he, he studies and he teaches in English. It's a beautiful thing. 

Harrison Gevirtz: My, uh, my mom is French, and when I would go to France in the summer, I would just walk around and everyone and be like, , parle. So it's the same thing. That was my hustle.

Everyone, I'm just like, you speak English? And they're like, no. I'm like, great. Not making friends with you. Great, I'm making friends with you. People would tell me they didn't speak English, and then my mom would ask them with her legit French, and they'd be like, Oh yeah, I just don't want to talk English.

So, I was a loser in that regard. They're very proud of the French. 

Josh Sebo: Yo, Ian. Ian, how did you meet Harrison? You briefly were telling me about it before you hopped on, but I love to make Harrison feel uncomfortable, so let's revisit that. 

Harrison Gevirtz: Being uncomfortable is good for growth. Let's hear it. Yeah, so it's 

Ian Fernando: a long time ago.

I'm pretty sure it was in Vegas, um, either on the show floor or at a club. I remember him having a pink, flirty, uh, uh, scarf. Uh, thumbs up Steve's 

Harrison Gevirtz: and that's how I hate me. 

Ian Fernando: Right? Uh, just I think it was either in the club or on the show floor and I just forget when but I remember him sticking out because of the pink flurry scarf and I'm like, ah, I know this kid.

I read about him and that's when I approached you, uh, talking about him. Damn, you've read 

Harrison Gevirtz: about him. Not legally allowed to be in the club but I probably was at the club. People always ask me, why don't you really go to the club that often? I'm like, I got it out of my system at age 16. I'm over it. 

Josh Sebo: I mean, speaking of the club, Harrison, 

Harrison Gevirtz: I did make another appearance, you know, at rainbow, we, we really, we care about our customers.

So when a customer asks. I deliver and I was asked to go to the club. We're celebrating one of our clients birthdays. So I made an appearance. I really need to have earplugs with me at all times though. That is just the problem. It's too loud. I don't mind the club if I have earplugs. So 

Josh Sebo: Harrison on the flip side, what's your version of how you met Ian?

Cause you guys seem to have known each other for a very long time. 

Harrison Gevirtz: I believe it was an affiliate summit and I don't remember if it was a club or a. A show floor. What's funny is my first couple affiliate summits, they were 21 and up shows. And I wasn't allowed to go and so and I didn't want to burn the relationship and like borrow someone's badge because I didn't want to get banned from the show for when I was old enough because I knew that this is my industry.

I'm not going anywhere. And I hate. So I would sit like, it probably was the club because I. I finagled my way into the club, but I did not finagle my way into the trade shows. I would stand out front of the show and, like, do meetings or take people to, like, restaurants and stuff. And my memory's a little blurry, but I did have a pink scarf at one time in my life.

I was a different, different phase. I'm in the more of just not wearing pink. 

Josh Sebo: Now you're in the, uh, yellow sunglasses inside phase. Yeah, you know 

Harrison Gevirtz: what? Good call. As I was saying, I have to be classy, dress up a little for you guys. So yes, I remember that. You pretty much were like, Yo, what's up dude? Are you Harrison?

And I was like, yeah, what's up? And we met. This was back in the era where everyone had a blog. So you had your blog. I believe you already had your blog at this point. I had my blog. I think we did some guest posts a long, long time ago. Like, I was 15 years old, like, this is hilarious. I gotta dig it back in the database for this.

But, you know, we, we always crossed paths. I've seen you in different continents before. Like, I think I saw you at a show in London before. Uh, back. 

Ian Fernando: I've seen you in the Far East. That one, you know, 

Harrison Gevirtz: and uh, you know, we've always been, we've been pretty cool. We don't talk that often, but I know Ian Fernando, like someone's like, yo, can I talk to Ian?

I'd be like, yo, I'll message him on 

Josh Sebo: messages. I, I know Ian Fernando and me and Ian like really don't know each other. Ian, I remember hearing about you. Cause I used to work with Darren Blatt at the affiliate ball. And he would always drop your name as a legend in the industry. When I was first getting started way back when.

But it's, uh, it's awesome to see that you're still crushing it. And speaking of this leads us right into our first topic. So as a super affiliate of 15 plus years, I'm curious, why did you make the move to a four D as the VP of network operations? Did you get tired of just doing the affiliate? You know, day to day and you want 

Harrison Gevirtz: something online, late bidding of affiliating got old.

Josh Sebo: Yeah. Like why, why, why does, why does the guy who's crushing it for 15 plus years is a super affiliate? If it's okay to call you that, why does he make that change? 

Ian Fernando: I guess it becomes boring, right? So there's, there's always something like where when you launch a campaign and. You get your first conversion, the building up to that campaign is the fun part, and then the conversion part becomes the boring part for me.

It's like, oh, I could probably scale this, but then I'm like, I don't want to, right? Because it's like easy. I think in part of my life now, I'm trying to look for what is next, uh, for me business wise. I've made some bad investments in the past, so I just need more education, right? A lot of bad financial decisions, too, with, uh, you know, just buying into other properties or buying into businesses.

And plus, the opportunity to just work with Jason is just... Sure. Gold, I think, in my opinion, too, right? 

Josh Sebo: I mean, that's a topic that I threw in last night. We'll get to that, but I want to ask you more about that, but keep going. Sorry. It's more just 

Ian Fernando: like, what is next? I just don't know what's next. Like, how do I grow, right?

Because in this industry, you're just either flipping Facebook accounts, Google accounts, arbitraging all day, like, I mean, what is, where are you technically growing once you figure out how to run a campaign very easily, right? Like, you create a campaign and you actually get bored of it, right? And for some people, like, it's fun, like for me, the money part is I've made so much that it's half become boring, right?

So where am I growing within the affiliate marketing? It's still the same thing. Sure, I'm adjusting to the traffic sources, to new offers, to maybe new verticals, new e commerce products, new... Traffic sources, but it's a very small percentage. Like where's the true growth in affiliate marketing for an individual, right?

Especially for a solo affiliate, right? 

Josh Sebo: What's your day to day look like when you were first getting started? Let's go back 15 years, right? And then I want you to compare it to what your day to day looked like not now at A4D, but right before you made that switch. When you were just like, still I'm, I'm the super affiliate, right?

So like, cause I think there's probably a lot of Beginners who maybe this episode is their introduction to affiliate marketing. And there's probably some other super affiliates who are seeing if Ian Fernando is still, still got it. Right. So what was, what was the day to day and the difference of like that beginning and that not the end, but that transition to where you are now, man.

Ian Fernando: So if we start off with me having a job, uh, I mean, it would be like, I would work three, three jobs at a time and then work affiliate marketing for Two hours a day, but eventually some of this stuff turned into profit where I was able to get rid of two jobs and eventually got rid of the third job and then work to affiliate market, but it was like only 16 hour days.

Right. It wasn't like a regular nine to five, you know, 

Harrison Gevirtz: you had that OG affiliate grind. I know. Yeah. 

Ian Fernando: That 16 hour days, 20 hour days, you know, just refreshing your screen all the time. 

Harrison Gevirtz: Yeah. You know, full time job of pressing F five. 

Ian Fernando: Hopefully to see, especially when you're like, I was using tracking toe to back in the day, I would always look for the dollar sign in there and their lives on like 

Harrison Gevirtz: the live where it would show like, click, click, click.

Ian Fernando: So obviously it was a lot of research, trial and error. At that time, I was running more Google, uh, traffic in the past. Now, obviously doing a lot more mixed. Um, but now I literally was probably only working like four or three hours a day, looking at campaigns, consistent, stable, doing things like uptaking traffic.

Why did something dip down X amount? Right, um, I even took like two years off, right, from affiliate marketing just because I have so much access that I'm like, I don't really need to work, right, or there are times where... 

Harrison Gevirtz: When you took that time off, did you get like bored, or what did you do with your free time?

Like what were you up to during that time? Oh man, I just, I was 

Ian Fernando: going through like a quarter life crisis. 

Harrison Gevirtz: I'm having that currently. I, I, I, I recommend 

Josh Sebo: it. I was gonna, I was gonna say everybody has their own version of that, but what did, uh, I mean, if you're comfortable sharing, like what did the crisis look like and how did you come through it?

Ian Fernando: It was just again, being, um, cause at that time it's like, okay, I was doing it also like Amazon doing print on demand, I was doing it for marketing. So I doing a whole vast. And I also just got out of a bad partnership with Nutra where we had a company for like five years for Nutra, killing it. And I'm just, I just needed a break and I just went to Asia for like two years and just partied every day.

You know, I just 

Harrison Gevirtz: got drunk. You just got it out of your system. Yeah, exactly. Well, you're in Brazil partying now, so never mind. 

Ian Fernando: Yeah, kind of, right? I mean, I'm not going hard, hard, hard, right? But it's just... Same thing, different country, but I'm not depressed. I'm not like, you know, trying to dissolve my sorrows in, in alcohol.

Like I was, you know, my core, like crisis issues, you know, for sure. 

Harrison Gevirtz: So sense. So, well, I got a question for you real quick. Sorry. So like, I always think about how different the affiliate marketing industry is as a whole. From now, like today versus 15 years ago when I was like a young tyke running ads and getting clicks and leads and stuff, you know, what, what are a couple of things that stick out to you when you think about how different it is to be, you know, media buying and, and running traffic to offers because it's crazy how different things are and I'd love your perspective on that Ian.

Ian Fernando: Um, I think the level of affiliates back in the day till now are not as creative, like I'll still like, for example, I'll read like a one issue with tick tock was running debt. And they recently pulled up like a financial issue, you can do debt or credit something on on tick tock. So I'm like, Huh, I wonder what do they mean by that they're wording.

So I figured yeah, I measured all my wordings on my landing page, figured out how many 10% credit and debt of like 25%, and then I slowly remove certain words, or percentage of credit and debt, and every time I would get resubmitted, if I get denied or approved, I'd be like, oh, this is where the threshold is for accepting a landing page where I can push financial offers.

You don't get those type of affiliates anymore, that think like that, right? 

Harrison Gevirtz: Well, to their defense, I will say this and you will agree, I mean, you, we're in the neutral world, so you get it. I think that the, uh, the entire internet, but especially direct response or affiliate marketing, online advertising, whatever you want to call it, Was much more of a wild west back then, you know, we don't have as many, uh, IQ test SMS offers or 4.

95 shipping free trial acai berry offers or like for, you know, psychic offers that are free, you know, like the quantity, the quality of offers is definitely a little bit better today, I think, and like, you kind of have to You can't just be shady anymore. Like, 15 years ago, people were just running, throwing shit at the wall, something sticks, who cares?

I see less Dr. Oz 

Ian Fernando: on the internet. That is true, that is true. I mean, back in the day, I remember buying Google Ads for like... Justin Bieber, ringtones and like, yeah, 

Harrison Gevirtz: no one cared now, like there's rules now. And I think that's good for longevity. If you could adapt and you can run stuff in a clean and productive manner, like you're going to succeed the fly by night operation of affiliate marketing, which was my youth, um, you know, it's kind of dead and that's, it's good, but it was fun.

Ian Fernando: I know I do. I do agree for sure. Like I, I've evolved from that, like. Make that money right now because I need it. I fully market my ATM, right? Just throw them that boom make money now. It's like shit. I actually need to turn this into a business You gotta try now. I gotta I gotta work with the partners with the advertisers directly to make sure Miley's it's good quality How to convert on their side what their true cpa, right?

So learning that side of business also is very very important but that evolution on a publisher side very very different now because Before you can just run, be a fly by literally right now. You kind of have to get involved with everybody that you work with. 

Josh Sebo: Yeah. So I want to, I want to revisit the second half of the question.

You said at the beginning, it's like, I'm looking for that dollar sign on the ticker, right? I'm hitting that refresh button. So what did the affiliate game look like when you were at year 15? And you were in Fernando and everybody knew your name and you're crushing it. Like what did your day to day look like?

And how was it different from the beginning? 

Ian Fernando: Uh, I mean, literally it's just like throwing up campaign three hours of work. There's really no big difference. Um, there's probably simple research that's happening, looking at ad spy tools. Since I already have so much knowledge from the past, I kind of just know what to throw up right away, what kind of layouts I need, what kind of ad or angles I need to go after.

Um, so not really much work. It's really... There's no complications in the work that I do now as a publisher, whereas before there's a lot more because of understanding the algo, click bidding, uh, ruling, probably thinking about more different angles back in the day, what work, keyword targeting. Now it's just, it's just so much knowledge in my head that's just a checkbox in my head now, right?

So literally three, Max three hours, four hours of work on and off, uh, you know, and just maintaining watching. I'm not even going after for like the 100k months anymore, like as long as I'm maintaining certain campaigns that are constant, because what, what I hate is campaigns that scale and then they die off and it's like two months of like no traffic, no income, like, okay, where do I go with certain offers that will stabilize, right?

I don't want to scale too much because it might just tick off the Facebook traffic algo and just kill it. Those are the things that are, that worry me more so. 

Harrison Gevirtz: What would you tell... Real quick, I was just going to say, I think that one of the biggest changes I've seen from the affiliate mindset of 15, 16 years ago versus today is that people are beginning to think long term.

The analogy that Adam and I used is... When we kind of made the transition and began to build Ringba and, you know, made other investments and built other businesses, the, the analogy was we're done spinning plates. And we actually want to build something. And I think that, that is an important mindset shift that this whole industry has seen.

Um, like, you just, you just spoke the word of it. Like, it's how it is. It's pretty cool, honestly. Yeah. To hear that. 

Ian Fernando: I think it's cool that publishers like to build. Like, I, example, like, I like enjoying building the campaign. Right? Um, and it was fun. Again, the conversion part and the maintenance becomes like the annoyance part for me nowadays.

Right? Uh, but I mean, now I can throw the analysis into ChatGPT and it tells me which one's, which one's better. 

Josh Sebo: Ian, we're not allowed to talk about ChatGPT anymore. We've spoken about it for probably like 75%. And they 

Harrison Gevirtz: refuse to give us money for sponsorship. No, we haven't actually tried. But no, they're just getting 

Josh Sebo: in.

I was going to ask you, like, what's something you would tell that newbie 15 years ago, if you like that you wish you would have known when you were getting started, that you have acquired, you know, over the past 15 years that you feel like really would have given you a leg up. If someone's watching this, they're getting started.

What would you like really tell them to focus on to, to kind of skip a lot of the. Trials that you had to go through 

Ian Fernando: trials, man. I don't know about trial, but I'll tell him like collect leads, like always collect leads. Like if I had my email list from like my blog and in the new two days, I can only just throw an email, write it up in 30 minutes or an hour, and then that would be it.

Most of my day would work. Right. So like I'm doing a new two days. We had like a million records of like, we had another, like three, three point something of like contacts. And if I was, if I kept that warm throughout the years, I can just throw up an email a day and just be good with it. 

Josh Sebo: So to comment on that, how, how would you suggest kid electing leads and making contacts like that?

Like what, what were your best methods of doing that? Well, 

Ian Fernando: it's using the vertical, creating a simple opt in. Like we were doing stuff for like, uh, an ebook to affiliate offer. That's what I would do. Right. I just, I tell a lot of people to always usually do that, right? It's just a landing page, right? The only difference is you'll probably get a 2% sleeper scope.

What I've noticed is a 2%, 3% down in your LPCTR, but you have to lead, you know, so that's the most important part. Right, but it still acts similar as a landing page, you know, instead of getting a 60% LPCTR, you probably get like 57, 56, 55 LPCTR just because there's an option in there, but it just tells you that at least more qualified because they're taking an action and hopefully they turn into conversion through your seven day email series, right?

Harrison Gevirtz: Quantity. Quality over quantity is what you're saying. So you might lose a couple of visitors, but your quality overall is going to increase. You might make up that difference in a getting a bump on the offer you're running because the quality is so damn good. Yeah, 

Ian Fernando: exactly. Harrison, 

Josh Sebo: what would, oh, go ahead.

Yeah. I don't mean to cut you up. 

Ian Fernando: No worries. I just always tell publishers to always collect because if, if I had that list today, I wouldn't just, I wouldn't be working. I just be like collecting leads every day for that same YouTube stuff. And just send an email a day easy, you know, 

Josh Sebo: Harrison, I was going to ask you the same question, like, what would you tell the guy wearing the pink scarves, you know?

Harrison Gevirtz: Don't wear pink fucking scarves.

Okay, okay, we're on the same page here. Um, no, you know, I think that, uh, when I was younger, I probably could have been a little more frugal. I probably would have said don't buy jewelry. Um, you know, you, you've made bad financial decisions. I, as well, when I was younger, uh, have made plenty of bad financial decisions.

Um, so, you know, that is a lesson learned. Um, but, you know, I think that I, I guess I would tell myself now, if I was talking to me then that. I should start to I should I should have that spinning plates analogy. I wish I saw the light on that a little bit sooner because I'm really proud with the businesses we built and what I've done.

But, you know, it's really a grind when you're affiliate when you're being an affiliate, you're going hard and, you know, you're having these 7 whatever K days and you're, you know, you're netting 40, 50% margins. And then you wake up 1 morning and that should just burn to the ground. Like. That's mentally taxing.

Like there's this, this little story, I won't go into too many details, but Adam and I had a, had a business about nine years ago now, and it was a, you know, close to six figure daily revenue business for almost like two years. Like we crushed it. And one day there were some browser updates, Google changed some rules and that we thought the server was down and no, it was like, we just got nuked.

Like it was zero. And that was actually kind of the moment where we went. Like that was fun. We crushed it. I tried to like save face, like, Hey, let's, let's relaunch. Let's get our, and we realized like, no, you got to just build, you know, build something that lasts for the longterm. And so I would tell myself to look at things that I can build for the longterm.

Because if I had started that mission when I was younger. Probably build some cool shit versus like just trying to find another diet offer or dating offer or pin submit to promote. 

Ian Fernando: Yeah, exactly. I mean, I remember when I first, first started, um, I bought a house cause back in the day all these bloggers were buying homes.

I'm like, I can buy a house too. So I'm just going to buy a house. Right. And then I think like a couple months in my revenue. I was losing like 5 to 7k a day and I actually got into like depression, like my first depression and it was so bad because like with like three months of like no, no revenue coming in and just losing money trying to figure out why.

And at that point I was like Damn, did I get in this industry by accident? Am I actually really good? Do I actually have talent? Am I good at marketing? Or was it just by luck of the draw, right? That's what was racing through my mind back, back then. But eventually, things got back up. Uh, you know, slowly, slowly, uh, Racked up a bunch of credit cards, but came back through, you know what I mean?

But yeah, those days where it just gets nuked and you're like a month without revenue. That's the downside of affiliate marketing for sure, right? And that's like the ugly side of it too, 

Harrison Gevirtz: right? Those days when you wake up and you're like, shit, I got no campaigns running or I'm breaking even, are painful.

Um, you know, I had a funny discussion like 10 years ago with someone and he said that he stopped his campaigns because they weren't profitable enough and I, I know this isn't fully relevant, but I just, I want to share it because I always baffled me when he told me this. He's like, yeah, I was making like 7% margins, 10% margin.

So I just stopped. It wasn't worth my time. And I'm thinking like. Dude, what the fuck? Like, if I make, if I spend a hundred dollars, and I make a hundred dollars and six cents, I'm keeping the ads running, bro. Like, come on, right? You know, 

Ian Fernando: so now at that point, it's like, oh, is it optimization? And what I do need to adjust is a campaign structure, right?

Harrison Gevirtz: So let me try to negotiate a bump on the offer. Let me go run, write some new ads. Let me see what I can do to increase my, you know, CTR on my landing page. Let me up my quality score with Google. Let's try some new ad sets on Facebook. Like keep hustling, man. I, when I heard that, I was like, this dude's coasting.

Like, come on, bro. 

Ian Fernando: A lot of affiliates are coasters nowadays, I've noticed, right? So. 

Harrison Gevirtz: I gotta be careful on this one, but a lot of people coast and there's a lot of people that have very successful businesses and they could be more successful if they didn't coast. How's that? I'm saying politically correct today.

Ian Fernando: Definitely agree. Definitely agree. Ian, 

Josh Sebo: where do you see the affiliate? Game going in the future. You've been around a pretty long time. I know we like briefly touched on where it was and where it is now, but like, where do you see it evolving to over the next few years? And how do you feel like you're going to have to adapt to like, stay on top?

Ian Fernando: I don't think it really changes. I think it adjusts, right? Adjust more. Like I think everybody's going to need a broker for a lead for sales, right? Only adjustment industry does is getting used to new traffic sources, getting used to like AI development, for example, you know, creative adjustments, you know, whether you get video content, like how do you adjust from doing all creative from like image to now video, right?

Um, like for me, I recently just adjusted into paper call, like just last year and that's a very interesting topic, right? Or maybe like five years ago, more into, more into a push over pop, right? Or maybe three years ago, I got more into vertical videos, right? Versus, uh, creatives. So I wouldn't say the industry changes, it's just adjusting, you know what I mean?

So that's how I see it. Everybody's gonna need a broker. Everybody needs referrals. Everybody's gonna need, um, somebody to give them sales, right? So that arbitraging, I don't think will ever change. But the adjustment of getting used to new concepts, ideas, evolutions of the industry, you just gotta adjust to it, 

Harrison Gevirtz: I think.

You know, I, I agree with most of what you said, but there's 1 thing that I, I think that I disagree with. And it's, you mentioned the new traffic sources. I think about 15 years ago, how many more traffic sources existed than today with what we run, you know, there's been a true consolidation and a lot of the traffic sources where now, you know, the majority of traffic is coming from Google, Facebook, tick tock.

It's like, that's a lot. Now, there's definitely those push networks. There's definitely domain traffic. There's definitely, there's still pop ups. There's still video ads, but I, I, I think like continued consolidation is a real thing. Um, you know, the Internet has become double click with its own thing.

That's Google. You know what I mean? Instagram was a separate thing. Facebook now has their own, you know, you know, they're everywhere. So I agree with you there though. Uh, 1 thing that I believe. And I think that, you know, I, I don't think it's going anywhere, but I think it's, it's harder to just be the affiliate that buys traffic on Google throws up a quick landing page and generate some leads or throws people to calls.

I think now people have to actually build products and not like an offer. I mean, like, A directory or a site that's resource intensive and has, or, you know, for a customer, like there's resources. If we're talking about credit repair, financial services, or insurance, it's not just like, here's my insurance lender call for Medicare or call for ACA, whatever you got to actually.

Invest in what you're showing the customer and focus on quality. Content and like building something because these big companies that are buying calls or buying leads, they have media buying teams too. And you gotta, you know, I guess you could say in today's world as a, as a media buyer, as an affiliate, you have to prove your value a little bit more, which I think is good because it's going to teach those coasters to stop coasting.

Ian Fernando: Uh, you know, affiliate for sure. It is hard. Um, that's why I think a lot of affiliates have evolved into teams, agencies. Two partnerships, one, get the resources, talking to the advertiser, direct one, running the media, buying one, setting it up. Right. I think that also is just an adjustment in the industry because validation is also, I think you're right.

It's also an adjustment. Like native traffic, like almost taboo and our brain almost or taboo, almost buying out our brain, right? It would have been a crazy consolidation of that source as well. But Yeah, I mean, there's so many traffic from like, Quora to Reddit, but all the volume ones, obviously, with the tier threes, uh, tier ones, you know, Google, Facebook, 

Harrison Gevirtz: YouTube.

There just used to be a lot more tier two and tier three now, you know, and now it's like, that's still there, but it's not what it was, and, and I, I do say, and I'm not actively buying Meteor these days, you know, but I miss those options, because I had a lot of fun with those. Those were... You could, like, make a, build a relationship with someone, spend a shitload of money, make a shitload of money, and, like, good luck building a relationship with Google.

They don't really like, they don't like 

Ian Fernando: anyone. Yeah, I, dude, I remember we were spending, like, close to half a million with Google for Neutro Days, and we got, they gave us a plaque of, on that day when we spent our first million with them, they gave us a plaque of, you know how, like, Google changes their, uh, their screen or logo every day?

They sent us a plaque of that day, of what the logo was, and like, dude, that's what we get for like, spending money on a house. Yeah, dude, I just, 

Josh Sebo: I just rolled my eyes when you said that. I was like, damn, 

Harrison Gevirtz: alright. Yeah, it was like falling apart. You're like, dude, really? Okay, I guess that's what we'll, I'll take the gift.

Do you 

Josh Sebo: remember, do you remember what, like, it was? What was the day? Like, what were they celebrating? 

Ian Fernando: Yeah, I don't know what the, the, yeah, 

Josh Sebo: it was always like a fun game. When I opened my browser, I'm like, Hmm, can I figure out what this actually is for? 

Ian Fernando: Yeah. I have no clue. Yeah. I was like, it just came in a mail.

I'm like, thanks for your first million. And it was a picture of the. 

Harrison Gevirtz: A box of tic tacs and a shitty Google logo, right? Yep, pretty 

Ian Fernando: much it. Yeah, so, it is what it is. 

Josh Sebo: Are you still doing a lot of work with Google, Ian? 

Ian Fernando: Nah, most of my traffic would be internal with uh, H3D currently. So, I test traffic now with them, and then pass it over to the internal team, you know.

Josh Sebo: So, I know you, I know you travel a lot. We briefly talked about Brazil, and I know, So basically you were kind of a digital affiliate marketing nomad for, you know, eight years. And honestly, it sounds like you might still be in some regard. So I'm curious, like, you know, I asked you what the typical day looked like from the beginning to where you are now, but I'm curious, like, how does the travel affect your day to day?

What are some of the trap challenges associated with travel? What are some of the beauties of it? And what would you kind of say to an affiliate who maybe is buying a one way ticket to Thailand They know what their work is going to be, but they don't know what their life is going to be. 

Ian Fernando: Man, that's, that's a crazy question.

I don't know. I travel with a very, very open mind where I think getting lost is very important. Um, losing yourself, uh, in the city, rediscovering yourself. I think it's important, right? As a publisher and affiliate. I think routines are very important. I have a very strict morning routine. Like I don't pretty much start my day to like 10 o'clock.

Josh Sebo: Well, can I, can I jump in right there? I'm really 

Harrison Gevirtz: curious. Do you wake up at 10 in the morning or you start 

Josh Sebo: your work? Can you, can you walk us through the morning routine? Unless it's like super personal and you don't want to share, but I'm curious. Cause I think a lot of people. Like, we, we talk about routine on the show all the time, especially in the morning, non negotiable wake up times, meditation, stuff like that.

So what does your morning routine look like? 

Ian Fernando: Uh, I'm usually up by 7 30, pretty much automatic since the sun hits my window. Um, I'm up, you know, a little bathroom, take care of the manly stuff, right? Uh, then I pull out my yoga mat. I do my stretches for 15 minutes, meditate for another 10 minutes. Then I go to the gym for an hour, hour and a half, dependent.

You know, cook breakfast, do a little errands in the morning. But that's pretty much my fixed routine. Like, I have to do my stretching, yoga, meditation, gym, in the morning first, for sure. Like, before, before 8 o'clock. 

Josh Sebo: If you need any tips on, on the gym, Harrison's your guy. I don't know if you follow him on Insta, but he's...

Yeah, I 

Ian Fernando: see him on Instagram. Plumbing my 

Josh Sebo: irons. He's getting after it. New PRs every day, bro. Uh, so that's, that's actually really interesting. I have my own morning routine. It's similar. I'm not really working out, but I always try and meditate. I find my day is always a lot more balanced when I do. And one of my favorite quotes is like, if you don't have the time, if you can't find, I think it's Tim Ferriss, maybe.

It's like, if you can't find 10 minutes to meditate, you should probably find 20 or something like that. But, uh, so it takes you to 10 a. m. And I think that's. Dope. Because you're not putting out fires as soon as you wake up. So what happens at 10 a. m. 

Ian Fernando: I log in, check stats and I go, you know, now that I'm with A4D check, uh, tickets, how their traffic, what did we do yesterday or the revenue.

Right? Why are we down? You know, I just create a whole list of like, errors of what I gotta look for. So, every morning, writing out notes of what I gotta do. Right? So... 

Josh Sebo: Dude, I'm a big notebook guy. Yeah, same. Love a good cross off, dude. Nothing feels better. 

Harrison Gevirtz: I feel like I need to share my routine now. So yeah.

Oh, sorry. 

Josh Sebo: Well, we all, we all, we all watch it on Instagram every day, but yeah, you can 

Harrison Gevirtz: watch it. Well, okay. So I have to say full disclosure, my routine is going to change. I've been in Scottsdale, Arizona now for a couple of years. And on Saturday, I'm actually moving to Miami. So if you're listening and you're in Miami, you should say what's up.

Cause I'm new to a city. I want to make lots of new friends. Um, but. I typically start my day with my Arizona routine at 3 45. It's real. See, I didn't just make that up and I wake up. I eat a small snack and then I drink pre workout. I have a special 1 that it's called crack gold edition. It makes me shake and feel like I'm having a heart attack.

I spend about 3045 minutes checking emails that I got overnight. See if anything, you know, needs urgent attention. Um, and then I'm at the gym. Monday, Tuesday, or yeah, Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday, I go at 5 a. m. On Wednesdays, it's 6. Um, I do an hour workout, come back, protein shake, sometimes have some egg whites, which taste terrible.

Um, and I just start working and I grind pretty much non stop until about 2. 30. Then I got a 3. 15 workout. After that, I get home except on Tuesdays and Thursdays. I do Pilates after the workout, um, and then I work for like, maybe two, three more hours, go eat an early dinner, and I try but usually fail to be in bed before, like, I try to go to bed at 8.

30, but I usually don't go to bed at like 9. 30, 10, um, I definitely meditate. I usually meditate before bed, actually, but sometimes, and I have that free hour after I wake up, And go to the gym. I actually will meditate if nothing happened and I'm feeling a little on edge or something. I'll just I do like I use the insight timer app, which has a bunch of free meditations and I really like it and it tracks me.

I got to like 64 days. Uh, in a row and then I burned myself one night and I didn't meditate till after midnight. So like, I didn't break my cycle, but the app is like, 

Josh Sebo: so yeah, that's, I was really, you gotta hit up, you gotta hit up the tech team over there and see if they can help 

Harrison Gevirtz: you out. No, I I'm holding myself accountable.

So I lost my streak, but, um, yeah, like. I think having a routine is really important. I was actually, so I'm here at Vegas right now. Uh, I was at the Medicarians trade show. Reba has a big booth here and I've taken my fitness levels to an extreme level of douchiness. So I actually brought a trainer with me and I was telling him this morning, like dude, cause he trains me in Arizona.

I said, dude, I'm really scared about like my routine. Like I gotta have a routine. He's like. Don't worry, bro. You got a month you'll figure out, you'll figure out your routine. You'll get your routine. But like, that's one of my people like, are you scared of moving? I'm like, no, I'm scared about my routine.

I'm going to be like, so insistent for the first little bit. So routine is key. That's for 

Ian Fernando: sure. Especially when you travel for sure. Like I try to bring that routine wherever I go, but the first week is like, you know, jet lag definitely ruins it, but. As long as I have that routine. I don't even have breakfast before like nine o'clock, right?

Uh, so I go straight to the gym. Bro, I 

Josh Sebo: don't even I don't even eat breakfast, dude I do like intermittent fasting not by choice But just because I slam coffee and it crushes my appetite and then I eat like a massive dinner And that's kind of I don't know. It's not even like I know people like consciously try to do that It's just like how my body works at this point.

I don't know. I was gonna ask you Ian though Do you have like a non negotiable like? Bedtime, if you wanna call it that, like, to make sure you get a certain amount of sleep or you just kind of like wing it depending on what you got going on. Yeah. So most of the week, 

Ian Fernando: I, most of the week I try to be in bed like by 10 for sure.

Uh, but I do go out a lot. Um, but I, I try to be home before 11 for sure. Like last night I was home by like 10 o'clock. You know, uh, so I was able to get in bed before 11, but I do try to get in like at least six, seven hours for sure. 

Harrison Gevirtz: So I, I got a digital nomad smell test for you. Two questions. Do you live in an Airbnb or did you sign a lease?

Oh, this 

Josh Sebo: is a great question. We were just talking about this. Okay, go ahead. 

Ian Fernando: So this is now a lease, but was an Airbnb. 

Harrison Gevirtz: Okay. Then you have retired from Digital Nomad Life , and you're officially adulting in Brazil. 

Ian Fernando: Congratulations. Well, I, I am. Thank you. Thank, well, I am trying to like settle because. So you wanna stay there for a while?

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm, I'm working on my digital nomad visa right now, which will give me two years here. Oh, that's cool. Um, so, yeah, 'cause again, I just fell in love with the city and plus the big issue I'm trying to now resolve in my life, like relationships. Right. Because the dating scene is hard when, when you're leaving the country every 90 days.

Right. So 

Harrison Gevirtz: that's one thing. Well, I, I just realized you, we said you were in Brazil, but I don't actually said what city you're in. So where are you at? Uh, Sao Paulo. Nice. Have you explored some of the other cities in Brazil? Have you traveled around the country at all? Like, what is, what's like the difference between like, I think Sao Paulo is inland, right?

And Rio is on the water? 

Ian Fernando: Yeah, Rio's on, Rio's on the water, yeah. I was in Rio last year. Amazing. Uh, definitely smaller. Um, definitely a little bit more dangerous. But it was cool. You know what I mean? Um, like you can see, if you're on the beach, you can still literally see people from the favelas rob people on the beach like every day.

Right? So, even like, you'll see them at gunpoint. It's like, it's just normal to everybody on the 

Harrison Gevirtz: beach. It's like a chick in a bikini getting pointed a gun at her to take her phone. Wow, that's rough. Okay. 

Ian Fernando: And then I went to, uh, South, uh, Bahia, which is another, I flew about 30 minutes, no, no, an hour and a half flight from here.

That's also near the coast and that was fun, uh, but very, very hot. So, but I like, I'm a city person. I'm not really a nature person. So let's 

Josh Sebo: talk about, uh, A4D and Jason, you know, you mentioned like, you got a little bored of the affiliate life and like working under. A guy like Jason, like what more needs to be said, but I really would like to know, like, what is it like working with Jason?

Uh, you know, for anyone who didn't watch our episode with Jason, I would highly recommend it. I believe it's episode two. And I think it's the most viewed episode that we have, if I'm not mistaken. But it's either 

Harrison Gevirtz: episode two or three. I'm I'll check. Yeah. I'm 

Josh Sebo: pretty sure it's two. I'm the moderator here.

Don't ever question me again. All right. Uh, so I want to know like, what, what, what's it been like, like, is it. I mean, whatever you're comfortable saying, but like, is it a little bit intimidating? Are you feeling challenged in ways you haven't before? And if so, like what are some of the challenges and how have they impacted your growth as you know, a business person and a human being?

Ian Fernando: I mean, Jason definitely challenged me a lot for sure. Um, so when I had my businesses, what I realized as a business owner, especially during Nutra and like my Amazon stuff was like, I hated being like a CEO. Right. I just hated dealing with employee dramas and things of that nature, right? It's just, it was just so petty to me.

But now that I'm helping Jason with the network, he's pushing me to do the, doing more of a delegation, like understanding how to delegate properly without being so forceful, demanding, things of that, right? Whereas I know before I'd be like, damn, why, why, who cares about this? Let's just do this. Right.

Being super aggressive to my employees, whereas now it's just like, well, make sure you have trust, make sure you care. Don't do it in a demeaning way. Like he'll coach me through a lot of stuff, which is very, very helpful. Um, but it's also intimidating because when numbers are down, he'll. He'll ask why numbers are down and I'll be like, Well, there's an issue here, there's that, right?

Um, and I hate being 

Harrison Gevirtz: He probably has good feedback though when you're dealing with those issues. He probably can help you strategize and stuff. For sure. 

Ian Fernando: No, for sure he does. The problem is I, I always hate giving him bad news, right? Because it's like, like disappointing like your favorite uncle or your dad, right?

Like It's like, oh, sorry, I couldn't get it. It's like, it's very hard, right? He's such a legend, super knowledgeable that you don't want to disappoint him, right? And that's, that's the intimidating part that I have with him, right? 

Josh Sebo: So what are some of the ways you try not to disappoint him? Like, do you have...

Some things that you really focus on, or is it just kind of like you have that fire under your ass and you're just working as hard as you can? Yeah, 

Ian Fernando: uh, I mean, I'm working as hard as I can for sure, but it's a lot of strategizing with the team, trying to push them to, you know, get more publishers, get more publishers to run specific offers.

Now that we're getting into the paper call, uh, space more so, and a lot of our publishers over at AE has are more lead gen, e com. So trying to work with them, trying to get them, hey, let's, I'll help you find these, uh, call publishers, right? Let's do this. Maybe we need to go through the email newsletter.

Let's go through your book of business. Let's start getting on more phone calls, right? How do we strategize with your publishers? Can we, you know, evolve them from a lead gen person to, you know, a call person, right? So it's more of a strategizing part, which is, uh, fun, but also like, Not fast resulting, right?

Because if Jason wants, you know, results tomorrow, and I'm starting a strategy today, that strategy doesn't get implemented probably until the end of the week or next week, right? So, yeah. 

Josh Sebo: And was it Jason who like said like, Hey, You're a legend. I would love to have you on my team or was it you that said that to him or was it over years you guys kind of just kept talking, Hey, I'd love to do something with you.

Like, how did, how did all this come to be where you actually ended up getting the opportunity? 

Ian Fernando: Yeah. Yeah. Um, John Vogel reached out to me. Um, cause they're, Jason was looking for a campaign strategist to help publishers scale their businesses. Uh, so. It would have been a good idea where I would, and so I first came on board to help publisher scale, like going from like 10 figures a day to six figures a day through, through strategy, through maybe campaign restructuring or whatever, just having another mind to talk about the campaigns.

But it looked, it literally took me like two months where I was deciding, arguing with myself, like, do I want to do this? Do I want to do that? Um, And then I was like, sure, I'll do it. I think the idea is to just get knowledge, uh, and expertise from Jason. That's where I see the value for me, right? Because again, I'm looking for growth.

As a person, and Jason definitely can deliver that, right? 

Harrison Gevirtz: Real quick, uh, Josh, you're right. Jason was episode 2, not episode 3. I am wrong. I take accountability when I'm wrong. 

Josh Sebo: Ian, what kind of discounts are you getting on the yachts? On the what? On the yachts. 

Ian Fernando: Yachts. No clue. No clue. You 

Harrison Gevirtz: haven't shopped for a custom yacht from Jason yet?

Come on, dude, step it up. 

Ian Fernando: Ladies. I have to step it up, you're right, exactly. 

Adam Young: So you guys started without me? What the 

Josh Sebo: fuck? I was about to say, ladies and gentlemen, Adam Young from Ringba. How are you, Adam? What's going 

Ian Fernando: on? I love the hair. 

Adam Young: Good. Sorry, guys. I had to take a meeting at this trade show that's going on right now, but I just wanted to pop in and say, what's up, Ian?

Thanks for coming on the show. Of 

Ian Fernando: course. Of course. Appreciate it. Thanks on. Dude, 

Josh Sebo: Ian's been crushing it. This has been a great episode. Uh, Adam, I mean, now that you're here, like. Why don't you hop right in? What do you got, what do you got for Ian? Any questions? 

Harrison Gevirtz: Adam did extensive show prep, I'm sure. 

Ian Fernando: Yeah, yeah.

Adam Young: Yeah, uh, yeah, I am curious, man. Like what, what was it like for you going down to Brazil and changing your diet entirely to like the local food as opposed to what we eat up here in America, which is generally pretty shitty. Like, I'm just curious how that 

Ian Fernando: process went actually. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't eat a lot of local Brazilian food.

I, I mean, I just go to nice restaurants here. Uh, like they're really good food. Like a lot of Japanese food is very, very good here. 

Harrison Gevirtz: Um, I read that the large, I think the largest Japanese population outside of Japan is in Brazil. 

Ian Fernando: Yeah, I was just going to say that. Exactly. Yeah. So they have like 11 Michelin star restaurants here that are just purely Japanese.

So, I mean, like sometimes I'll, I'll, I'll, uh, I'll have local food when, you know, I have a girl, but I mean, most of the time I'm going to nice, nice restaurants, like decent Thai restaurants, Thai places, you know, Japanese food more specifically. Right. So no change really. 

Josh Sebo: Actually discussing food and now that we're, you know, graced by the presence of the Adam Young.

Adam, I, I saw on Instagram, you had a dinner. In Vegas with 20 CEOs. Is that right? 

Harrison Gevirtz: Yeah. 

Ian Fernando: So, 

Adam Young: uh, on Monday night, I hosted a dinner with our good friend, Sam Malamud, who is the CEO of NCD insurance, and also one of the partners in Medicarians. I don't know if that's Public or not, but guess it is now. And, uh, so he had hit me up and asked if I wanted to host a CEO dinner with him.

So we looked at all the CEOs who were attending the show and tried to pick out a really amazing group of people. Not just because they're CEOs, but also, you know, who's interesting. Who's working on really cool projects and from different areas of the industry. And then we all invited them to Hakkasan, uh, and had the big private dining room there.

And thank you to Harrison who put together an unbelievable menu for that. It was outrageous. We got through 

Harrison Gevirtz: the appetizers. I was full when they finished the appetizers. Literally 

Josh Sebo: I was like, fuck. I peeped, I peeped the menu. Cause I think you posted a pic. It looked pretty insane. Yeah, we 

Adam Young: literally have 20 pounds of leftovers in the fridge 

Harrison Gevirtz: over here.

I'm gonna go have Chinese food after the pod. Like, we got so much. 

Adam Young: But we love hosting events like that. And, um, you know, I actually met Ian at a Geek Out event recently. I mean, I've known of him for over a decade, you know, we're both old, old. People in our industry. Um, but I met him at an event. And so I really loved these types of events, hosting CEO dinners and other type of dinners like this, because anytime you can get 20 brilliant CEOs in the same room to talk about anything, like it's not just like new business comes out of that, the world will literally change.

Like if you can get 20 incredible entrepreneurs together, put them at a table and get them talking about. The things that they're passionate about, they literally will go out and change the world. And so I absolutely love being involved in events like that and hosting events like that. And we try and do it regularly.

Um, and it was, it was such a great time. And so thank you to everyone who came. I have like, no doubt that some incredible changes in our industry will come out of just Uh, 

Harrison Gevirtz: that dinner, 

Josh Sebo: are you able to tell us, like, what some of the discussion topics were from a bird's eye view? Because, well, 

Harrison Gevirtz: actually, Josh, we have a rule at the dinners.

It's no pitching, no snitching. So, no, but what I will say is that it's just a, it's like a mind meld. Like, we, we weren't only talking about business. We were talking about things we're passionate about outside of our work, things we do in our lives. And like, it was really just like, um, A really great group of people just talking about what they're good at, what they're, you know, and what we're not good at, what we want to do better, what we need help with.

We, I think most people at that dinner brought up a, maybe an issue or a problem that they're dealing with and trying to solve in their business. And, you know, people that. Don't even do the same thing, like, that are completely in a different, you know, wavelength or different kind of world. Like, not everyone there was an Internet marketer.

There was a lot of people that are on, like, the services and software side for Medicare insurance, like, providing software to. Insurance agents and stuff like that, but they were able to just give ideas and feedback just because everyone's like we're in a safe space. Everyone kind of trusts each other because they're at this dinner.

And so everyone's kind of willing to share and open up and help each other. And that's why it's such a great vibe at those types of 

Ian Fernando: events. Yeah, I remember like back in the day when I was my first affiliate, uh, show, oh no, my second one, I wanted to do like a dinner with just publishers that I wanted to talk to, like the high end ones, like back in the day with like Charles Ngo, Wayne Sheriff, uh, Chad, you know, and just having a dinner and just paying for everything just so I can have 

Harrison Gevirtz: Just soak up knowledge like a 

Ian Fernando: sponge.

Yeah, and then that turned into a trend. 

Harrison Gevirtz: Thanks I also didn't go, but I, fucker. 

Adam Young: You know, Josh, I actually would like to give an award. I'd like to give a trade show award on the show right now. I would like to give the trade show award for the biggest fucking balls. To the CEO of Health IQ, who actually showed up in person at this event and hung out with some of the people he owes tens of millions of dollars to and isn't paying.

So, shout out to that guy. Wanted to thank him again for not paying a whole bunch of our clients tens of millions of fucking dollars. Really appreciate that. Yeah, and so I gotta give him some props buddy way to take our clients money and use it to buy Uh trade show passes probably nice hotel rooms, but I will give it to him took some fucking balls to show up Damn, that is wild.

Nice. Damn. 

Josh Sebo: Damn is right. You own the episode. That was lit. Did you, uh, did you get a chance to speak with him, Adam? No. 

Harrison Gevirtz: Yeah. Some people we know did and they had some friendly conversations though. 

Adam Young: Yeah. I just got to meet with a bunch of my customers who saw him here who were very upset that they still haven't been paid their tens of millions of dollars.

And so as. a software provider in the industry, it's pretty frustrating to hear that someone like that, uh, just isn't paying their bills. And not only that, he won't even talk about it. So, um, and by the way, I invite him on the show. I would love to have him as our special guest. To talk about what happened at Health IQ, please come on the show.

Let's have an honest, open conversation about it. I won't even harass you about the debt you owe my customers. And let's talk about when things go wrong. I'd be happy to talk about the times I had to do mass layoffs, and my businesses went under, and I 

Harrison Gevirtz: had to move back. I can talk about my failures at EWA.

I'll get vulnerable. We'll have a vulnerable. Yeah, let's do it. Therapy and podcast. 

Ian Fernando: Yes! 

Adam Young: So we invite you, please 

Josh Sebo: come! Uh, Ian. I'm curious. Ian, have you ever had a situation where you've been owed a bunch of money or you've gotten locked? Or you've gotten burned? How much does Harrison owe you? How much does Harrison owe you?

actually, uh How did you

handle it? What would be advice to some of these people? I'm sure Health IQ is a bigger Issue for them right now, but what did you do to get through 

Ian Fernando: it? I don't have really, I mean, I've had payout issues, but I think one big one was, uh, a promoting offer in, um, Europe. And, uh, so they, they had to pay out in like, uh, US dollars, uh, in their dashboard, but because I think the Euro was adjusted, they adjusted that pay at like 30, but I ran a traffic for it for maybe a week.

And they wouldn't pay me that difference of like the three or four dollars. So that kind of annoyed me, but I mean, all you can do, not, 

Josh Sebo: not quite on the same scale as how, yeah, okay. 

Ian Fernando: I've had, I mean. I haven't really had like big payout losses, uh, and I've been very, very lucky with that just because I've had a good relationship with, uh, the people with my AMs and plus I have a blog, right?

So, like I remember shouting out like DirectTrack for being a shitty tracking platform. They wanted to pay me like Dude, DirectTrack, 

Harrison Gevirtz: that's, I, yeah, dude. 

Ian Fernando: And they wanted to pay me like 10k to take that post down. I'm like, nah, I'm gonna keep it up. Um, they actually want to even fly me down to their office to discuss how to make your tracking better.

I mean, I'm, I would have been very lucky. I'd never had very big payout issues just because I think my name, uh, burdens weight in the industry and it's very effective, I think. So I think that's another reason that I never had a really big issue in payout besides that small, small, uh, issue with, uh, currency exchanges.

Josh Sebo: So Ian, I was actually going to ask, you mentioned the blog, and I know you're 

Harrison Gevirtz: not asking me that question because we need another hour. 

Josh Sebo: You mentioned, you mentioned the blog and I know you're, you're deep in the A4D life right now, but do you have anything else going on like outside of A4D that you're still really busy with or that you're passionate about?


Ian Fernando: not really. I still have my Amazon FBA stuff, my, some of my print on demand stuff, but they're pretty much all technically automated. Like, I don't even touch my Amazon FBA, uh, my VA does most of the work, I just fill up a credit card, uh, it gets shipped to a shipping center that ships to, uh, Amazon, right?

I mean, instead of making like the traditional 12% ROI, I'm now doing like 7 or 8, depending on the products, right? Uh, but also Amazon is also a different beast, it's just me arbitraging too, as well. Right. Um, the print on demand stuff, uh, also very automated. It's via Etsy, right? It's just super, super easy.

So not, no really big projects. A lot of my time is with, with a 4d strategizing and growing, growing publisher based, going up to revenue, things of that nature, but not actually working with JC closely on.

Josh Sebo: Yeah, Adam, right, right. As you got on, we were asking him what it was like working for Jason. Uh, do you have any questions for Ian about that or anything? Uh, anything else before we let him get out of here?

Ian Fernando: Hey guys, welcome to Luis Delgado's show. Today 

Luis Delgado: We have Ian Fernando here live from Medellin. It has been a while since I've last had a, had a guest on the show. It's been about, I don't even know, maybe a year or two, yeah, because I've been working on this other podcast with, uh, my co host, but um, CEO of Ian Internet Media.

He's been in digital marketing space, media buyer, affiliate marketer for the past 15 years. I've been traveling the world about for about a decade, but I want to take it back to before you were a world traveler and international speaker and having your own company. Um, so right from the beginning, you know, what were you doing before you got into into business and traveling and, you know, well.

Well, there's a lot of stuff to start. So maybe we'll start off when I finished high school. We got 

Ian Fernando: into college. I went to college for about two years, about three and a half years. My first year I got kicked, uh, 

Luis Delgado: suspended for 

Ian Fernando: my first semester for having a poor GPA. Because all I was doing was like hanging around with the white girls on campus.

And just, it's because I live in a very Asian household and I was away from my parents. And I was like, Oh my God, I have freedom. Alright, so I just did whatever I wanted. Didn't really care about my grades. The second semester I actually got kicked out because of fighting, right, but that was just an issue, right.

Then I went back to New Jersey, 

Luis Delgado: um, and then I went to college there, Middlesex County College, a county college, and I 

Ian Fernando: got kicked out my third year for fighting. So I went to school for two and a half years. Couldn't really get into the... education part of my career, right? I couldn't listen to somebody that taught me about business because I went to school for business information, but none of the professors actually spoke or had knowledge of having their own businesses.

So I'm like, Why am I listening to this person? So when I did that and I told my mom, I didn't want to go back to school. She's like, well, you need to either find, go back to school or find a place, a new place. I'm like, all right, let me just find a new place. So technically I got kicked out and I had to figure out how to survive.

So. Basically, I was working three jobs. I was a waiter on the weekends, a human resource manager during the day, and a call center agent at night, right? So, I probably only slept probably two to three hours a day, right? Um, and then I told myself, like, you know what? There has to be something that I need to do to just get rid of two jobs.

My goal wasn't really to be an entrepreneur, to be where I'm at today, to be a traveler. My goal was at that time to have just one job. And then I found internet marketing. I googled how to make money online. I made money through eBay. My first, uh, career. I did very, very well. Um, I started ordering items in bulk, selling things outside of Walmart, outside ShopRite, uh, in the streets after work.

And then I also, once I started making bulk money on eBay, I was able to just get rid of, uh, one job. But the issue with that... How do I, I couldn't really deal with customer service because I was still working the two jobs. I still didn't have time to do working with, uh, with the clients. So then I started Googling how to make money with, without customers, 

Luis Delgado: without customers.

Ian Fernando: And then I found about affiliate marketing, media buying, and that's how I started buying ads on Google, buying ads on Facebook, uh, at that time, I was only buying ads on Google at that time, um, and I found affiliate marketing. Which then got me into an affiliate network and this affiliate network called Azuga back in the day, they're the one, they're responsible for jumpstarting my career, right?

I went from literally maybe 1, 000 a month to 1, 000 a week to pretty much 1, 000 a day, right? And that's pretty much how my career kind of started that path, right? There's a lot of things in between, like, there's a lot, it's like before, like, I, like, to survive in the hood, I had to like, Do a bunch of robberies.

You know,

but that's kind of stuff that, you know, happened to me. Like when I didn't have even free, when I didn't have wifi, I couldn't afford wifi. I saved money to buy a wireless repeater so I could put it on the edge of my window. And get a weak signal and get internet that way until I was able to afford a monthly, um, internet, like, so, yeah.

And so besides, uh, 

Luis Delgado: you know, getting kicked out from home and all these schools, like, what, what was your drive, though, to, to just, like, besides that, to be, to get into business? Why not, you know, pursue something 

Ian Fernando: else? Again, I didn't really understood anything about business. My goal was to get rid of two jobs and to get one job, right?

So eventually I Vonage, I went from call center agent. To, um, a, I forgot, like a school of call strategies where I had to figure out who had the fastest route, route call, but the cheapest route call, right? So it's all statistics. And then I realized to myself, if I were able to get rid of two jobs, can I get rid of this last job, right?

It was like a risk taker for me, a risk, risk, uh, issue for me. And I told myself, well, I have three months of worth of savings. So if I can replace this job within two months, then I'll continue. If not, then I'll find a job on the third month, right? Continue doing my job searching. And then when it's in my first month, I probably did my whole year's salary in one month.

Right. This is the first year. Yeah. My first time doing affiliate marketing. Right. And I was like, Oh, my God, this is awesome. This is great. So that's kind of how I got into it. And then over time, over time, I, over my career, I learned about it. Like, I learned how to do copy, create web design. I learned how to do more of the finance stuff, analytics, hiring, right?

Because eventually there's a lot of, uh, checkpoints in my life where I went from making things, 1, 000 a month to five figures a month to six figures, seven to eight, eight figures a month, right? So it's all throughout that time. I was always learning. So I never really wanted to get into business Entrepreneurship and affiliate marketing and media buying basically chose chose me.

Yeah, and did you know I mean at that 

Luis Delgado: point like I'm sure there's somebody that Kind of helped you along the way. Is there was there anyone that or that you looked up to like, hey, there's that Yeah, he's into marketing, you know, 

Ian Fernando: so back in the day, there was nobody like we have now, right? Because I started in 2002 full time 2004.

Um, Derek and Mike feel the same, you know, Russell Brunson, and um, Joel Kahn, like the old, old, old internet guys, old internet, old marketing guys, but on the internet, right? So like you have those legends for sure. Um, but there was nobody like me right at that time. So during that time I started creating, uh, I was using meetup.

com to find marketing meetups and that's how I started creating my circle, right? I started creating like, Oh, I want to meet people that do media buying on Google, Facebook. Plenty of fish, um, and then it's posted out there in public and eventually, uh, people in New Jersey that wanted to learn marketing or were into marketing or were just starting to marketing, just join my little meetup.

That's kind of who I learned from, but most of the time, 90% of the time I learned through mistakes, failure. Not the best way to learn. And that's how I learned. Failure. Yeah. So you were in New Jersey for a while and building this business 

Luis Delgado: and, and, and. This community, right? Yeah, at what point 

Ian Fernando: did you decide to 

Luis Delgado: move or how did you start, you know, it sounds like you were probably one of the first ones started like working from home, you know, or like, and traveling that term didn't exist then, but you 

Ian Fernando: know, I don't think it ever existed back in the day.

Right. I don't even think even remote work even existed back in the day. Right. So, I mean, this is 2004, 2005, 2006. We're in it with basically, let's see how old. Five, six, seven years old back then, right? Yeah. So everybody's still figuring it all out. It's like AI today. 

Luis Delgado: Yeah, 

Ian Fernando: exactly, exactly. 

Luis Delgado: So, so what, what, what inspired you to move overseas or to start traveling?

Is it when you reached a certain 

Ian Fernando: level of a success 

Luis Delgado: that you, was it just out of boredom or out of like 

Ian Fernando: to meet new people? So I think a little bit of mix out of boredom and I got tired. I needed to reset in my life, right? So I had a company in New Jersey or in Hoboken this time, um, we're doing amazing numbers, right?

Um, and one of the issues that I've hated was that when I became a C, when I was basically C level, which you technically just fall into the role of C level, it takes away, it takes you away from what you were doing, what you enjoyed. Me was looking at stats, looking at creatives, doing the ad, trying to trick people into buying, right?

That's what I enjoyed. But then, when I started having employees, I had to think about human research, I had to talk about people's payroll, I had to think about health benefits, their investment, they're all 401, I had to open banking, I had to open up more LLCs. I have to make sure there's no drama, who's having sex with who, like, these are the issues that having a company suck, and I hated it, and I got kind of burnt out, and two days before my birthday, uh, and before this time, I was traveling on and off, right, uh, but not full time, so, I walked into the office, and I basically told everybody, like, hey, Uh, the company's closing, um, take whatever you want in this office, right?

Because it's shutting down, right? Just like that. Yeah, just like that. And then that Friday was my birthday. We celebrate, I celebrate my birthday with my closest friend, my business partner. Yeah. And some employees. And that's Saturday or Sunday, one of those. I just flew to the Philippines and it took a year, year and a half off.

So that's how my travel, full time traveling kind of started. But I've been traveling on and off. Like my first, when I married me, my first. You know, a couple thousand dollars, uh, I went to Morocco, that's my first country, right? To solo? Yeah, just to, uh, just solo, right? But I was a cocky motherfucker back in the day, so that was a bad idea.

Luis Delgado: He said you were a cocky? Okay, yeah, all right. Well, I guess that's two questions. What changed that, cockiness, and then how 

Ian Fernando: come the Philippines? So my cock is when you grew up in the hood and you don't have everything. Yeah. You want everything, right? Mm-hmm. . So for me is one, like I was a kid that when I would save my checks to buy the new Jordans, right?

So when I had, you know, a couple hundred K here, I would buy a watch. If I had another couple grand here, I'll buy a new car. No, I flew private. There are times where me and my business partner, we'd be like, Oh, we want real Italian pizza. We just took a private jet to Italy for a night, right? Oh, we want to go clubbing in 11 tonight.

We just took a jet to 11 for the night. We flew back the next day, right? And I was also so cocky that if I walked into the club and the tables were full, I would talk to the manager and be like, Hey, how much for this table? It's like, Oh, somebody has to have it. Well, I'm like, I'm asking how much for this table.

How much can I add more? Like, Oh, if you want to take it, it'll be another 5k. I'm not going to get done. You, the manager would come in, pick these people out and I would have my table. That's how cocky I was. Like there's instances of me talking to a bouncer like, Motherfucker, I've been waiting in line, like, let me in, right?

Um, do you know who the fuck I am? You know, I make your salary. I just made your salary. Mootly, let me in, right? Yeah, that's 

Luis Delgado: how bad I was. Yeah, that was bad. I was, I was, I was 

Ian Fernando: bad. Oh man. And then the cockiness stopped because I went into depression twice, right? And my first depression was... When I bought a house, uh, because everybody in the industry at this time, we're young people, and everybody was buying houses.

So I'm like, I can buy a house too. Like, I can flex my money too, right? Um, so I bought a house. Uh, and then probably like a year into it, I was losing like 7k a day, right? And I was like, Oh man, what's going on? And then I, I was asking myself, would this work? Did I get into this industry by mistake? Was it by luck?

Did I have, do I actually have skill? I started questioning myself about these things. Like, did I just get into the right moment? During the internet to make easy money, right? Because at that time, you throw up an ad, you made money. That's how easy it was. Like literally, like I was doing ringtones, literally printing money.

You can just throw money at the wall and for some reason it just turned to gold, right? It turned into shit, right? So, it was easy to make money back in the day. Nowadays, it's still easy to make money, uh, but you have to be more and more strategic, right? And this is where my first depression I realized.

Okay, I need to just focus on what I know, what this marketing taught me and see if I can expand out. Right. And it's the reason why I have like these tattoos on here. Love life, right? Just so it reminds me all the time. And my second depression was, uh, when I got another house. You got another one? 

Luis Delgado: Yeah. 

Ian Fernando: Uh, in South Jersey.

And then I was, at that time, I was trying to make a software company. Right. And then I was struggling to do so and I went to my parents like, oh man, I don't think I'll be able to pay rent, uh, or my, my mortgage, right? And my mom's like, well, you can't come here because you shouldn't be moving, you shouldn't be moving backwards.

I'm like, fuck, that makes so much sense. But damn, I hate you for not allowing me back in the house. 

Luis Delgado: Right. Right? Your mom said that? 

Ian Fernando: Yeah. Most moms I feel like would say, right? Come on, honey, I miss you. Kiss. I like, no, you're moving backwards. Like, you're fucking up. I'm like, damn, she's right. Right. So within three months, um, I was able to repay the mortgage and I worked a deal with the bank.

Um, and then it all worked out. So we just need to add a little harsh push sometimes. So would you say that 

Luis Delgado: what made your cockiness go away is like. Almost the moment of having it all over the night. Yeah. That, you realize how, like... 

Ian Fernando: It's not even that, I think it's like, I realize that, dude, I treat people, I treat people like shit.

Right? Yeah, like, when you, when you, when you're depressed, when you're depressed, you start thinking about, Why am I here? Uh, am I worth it? Do I have skills? Am I good at what I do? What led me to this? Right? You start asking all these weird questions, and then I found out it's just my attitude, right? And then once I started to become more humble, like, things just slowly built up, right?

Would you say, 

Luis Delgado: I mean, I see that a lot with people, especially like, you know, people that knew money, right? Yeah. And then they didn't grow up with money, didn't have money, had to work hard for it. A lot of times they want to spend it, you know, on materialistic things, cars, houses, and then at some point... At some point, hopefully, most people probably realize that that's not work.

I agree. That's not work. Most of your happiness comes from this. Maybe it adds to it, but it's 

Ian Fernando: not everything. It makes life easier, right? I mean, for sure money makes things easier. I don't think it, I mean it doesn't make, I mean, I am pretty happy in my Porsche, right? Or my Lambo when it happens, right? You know, um, But at the day, like, Like right now, I'm just simple.

I don't even have a watch on, I don't have my chains on. I realized after traveling so for so many years, so many times, like when I was in. They're making it public. Like, people are happy, right? Just like, talking to you. I'm like, why is this person happy when they know they're broke? Right? But, it's that thing, that simplicity makes things happier.

So you've learned that in the 

Luis Delgado: years that you were traveling to these 

Ian Fernando: different countries? Yeah, prior to my full time. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. It definitely hit me more. Like, when I sold a car, when I walked into the office and told everybody we're closing down. And I took a year off. It definitely hit me more because like in the Philippines, I would play, uh, basketball with my cousin and I would have Jordans on, right?

And he was playing flip flops and, and his friend would play with no flip flops. I'm like, dude, I'm so ashamed. Like, I'm embarrassed that I don't even want to play with y'all, right? But they're happy, right? And it's crazy to me that they don't have the basics, but yet they were able to play and enjoy themselves all together.

Right. So during that time, I traveled for sure. My first two years, I realized a lot more stuff for sure, but I knew this before, but. I just wanted to act like a boss. I would be the guy on Instagram, like at the airport, look at this fucking, look at these peasants. Right? like fucking pendants in the fucking, and they have to wait for the, wait for their fucking seats.

Yeah. I'm like, in first class, I'm like, they calling me a priority. I'm like, yeah. Like I fucking peasants. . You're upload. Yeah. On Instagram. Right? My sister would get so super mad about about that for sure. But yeah, that's not me anymore. Well, sometimes.

Do you have any, is there anything that you learned from, from, from being, it sounds like you're two different 

Luis Delgado: people. Was there, were there pros and cons? I mean, were there 

Ian Fernando: pros to being like that at all? Yeah, you, you're, you're super confident, right? You grow your confidence a lot, right? You know how to talk and you get what you want.

That brings, that brings the attitude in sales. Like when you want to create deals. Your cockiness helps, right, for sure. Because it's tied to some level of confidence. Yeah, no, it's like confidence. Like, yeah, dude, I know what I want. Like, just give it to me, right? But I can say, oh, there's, uh... So now, 

Luis Delgado: where does that come from, if you're not 

Ian Fernando: cocky anymore?

Luis Delgado: Now, if you're not that anymore, where does that same confidence come from? 

Ian Fernando: Well, it's still in me, right? I'm very confident in what I have. So, but I'm not, I'm not cocky. But if there's a deal that I want, I'll act cocky. I'll do like, you probably know this, I'll do something close. Where I'm like, oh yeah, the inbox.

Let me know when you send it to your account. I'm ready to start. That's not something close. That's cockiness. Right. But in a subtle way. Right. So that's because in sales or in marketing, if you're, if you're going to read a terms of service and be like, Oh, we can't do this. Then that kills your creativity.

Right. So cockiness is not like, like I'm still confident and I know what I'm doing. Yeah. Right. Like, but I'm also humbled. Now, right, but if I'm in the club and I can't get in, I won't be like, yo, what, how much that table has kicked these motherfuckers out. I'm not that person anymore. I'm like, oh, let's go, let's go to another club.

So that's, that's where it changes. I mean. Yeah. I mean, I think it's crazy how sometimes you have to go through dark moments 

Luis Delgado: just to get 

Ian Fernando: to that, that side. Yeah. The other side of things. Well, yeah, I mean, I think the difference nowadays is that... Because you still make the money. Yeah. And, but it's just the way you see things changing.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think the difference is that I have compound experience, whereas nowadays... People gain experience through YouTube, right? Like, I didn't know anything about financial education. Yeah. My parents only taught me how to save money, right? That doesn't do anything, right? Now, I had to hire a lawyer, CPA, tax attorney, right?

But people can get all that through the internet now, right? Which is, that's why a lot of people now are more financial savvy than anything, than when I was back in the day. Like, nobody's gonna buy a fucking quarter million watch. Tell them, hey, I bought a quarter million watch. Yeah. Right? 

Luis Delgado: You're like thinking back.

Um, tell me about, so you were traveling, you know, a couple of years and then you, so then when you got back into business, what, what were, what were, what was your, uh, your plan then, you know, and then how did that ultimately lead to 

Ian Fernando: being here today? So I think when I traveled and I took a year off, I wanted to get away.

I wanted to figure out who I was, right. Because being. Being a C level is not fun because you have to be responsible for people, not your company. Well, you have to be responsible for your company, which includes people, right? You're not responsible for yourself anymore, right? So you can't be selfish, right?

Um, so I didn't like that, right? And the craziest part is, like, before even that, I sold, uh, two companies, uh, before that. And just two years ago, I just sold another company, right? And they, the two other ones before 2013, um, I had my biggest employee list was probably 25, right? But I had somebody else take care of that, right?

Whereas me, when I owned my own stuff, I had to make sure everybody was good, everybody got paid right, right? Everybody had to know drama. But, I think... For me, I wanted to understand that what I wanted, did I want to make companies or do I just want to run, uh, affiliate campaigns, right? I'd rather be a one man show and have virtual assistant than have, uh, employees under me, right?

Because I'm responsible for my own income, right? Because the income in the company, I'm responsible for the revenue coming in to give to my employees, right? Let me talk to you. I have to make sure of KPIs. My KPIs aren't being hit and I get annoyed because I, I got to yell at employees, like, do I want to do that?

No, I don't know. It's, it's a weird dynamic. Right? I would rather just buy ads for myself. And if I don't make money, I don't make money. That's my fault. Right? Whereas if the company doesn't make money, then I can't pay employees. That's a heavy burden on me. I didn't want it. Got it. So you started to design your life in the way that you thought was best for you.

Yeah, correct. Yeah. 

Luis Delgado: And that was not having as much responsibility, but just focusing on a few clients. Um, and, and was that at that point also, were you thinking at that point, I also want to keep living overseas and work as, allowing you to work, you know, as least possible to make, and still make a lot of money?

Yeah. Or were you still like... Working a shit ton and trying to make a lot of money, even as a one man show. Oh 

Ian Fernando: man, no, I wasn't. So, once you hit, once you hit like a million, and you do eight, you're like, eh, they're different between one and, uh, seven and eight figures. Like, there's really not a big difference, right?

So then, I was like, okay, do I just want to make X amount of money per month? And just enjoy my life. Sure. I can do that because overseas is cheap, right? Right. I can control that variable, right? If I really want to make ends, I can, I can do it, right? But then that sacrifice my time, my freedom, my travel time, right?

Or do I just want to make a couple thousand dollars a month? So I can full time travel, full time read and write, all that stuff. But I realized that I want to be overseas probably four years into my travel, and probably three years into my travel. I was in Vietnam, and I really love Vietnam. And I think for me, once I understood how cheap it was, I was like, why would anybody want to live over, why would anybody want to live in the U.

S.? It took you that many years to, for that to put. Yeah, you know, and I started to think, figuring out how to, You might, well, we had taxation strategies overseas in Singapore and Hong Kong, but now it's like, okay, how do I do it for myself now? Because that, those entities were for the company, right? Huge corporations.

Yeah, exactly. So now it's like, how do I restructure it? Like right now I'm trying to figure out a little restructure for, for what I'm doing now, because this year I did very, very well, right? So now I'm trying to restructure it again. So I think it took me like three, four years to figure out, oh, I definitely want to be overseas just because.

Like lifestyle overseas is far better. What's better about it? I mean food access is far cheaper You can choose your climate. You can choose your your environment. You can choose your city, right? Like i'm moving to brazil next month And I'm going to Sao Paulo. Sao Paulo reminds me of New York, right? It has Japan town, it has German town, Italian town, Korean town, right?

The diversity is there, right? I guess those other ones as well. I thought that 

Luis Delgado: was mainly just Japan. I mean, I saw Japan. 

Ian Fernando: Town. Yeah, they're all, they're all out there. Yeah. 

Luis Delgado: He said they're all 

Ian Fernando: out there. Yeah, just imagine talking to a Japanese girl with a big booty. Like that's, that's crazy. In Brazil. In Brazil, yeah.

They're a mix. Yeah, they're a mix, right? And the other thing is you'll realize that people overseas, right, they enjoy being who they are, like Colombians, right? When you're in the U. S., There's this issue, like, we have an identity issue, right? So, everybody's like, oh, I want to protect my Mexican heritage.

Okay, cool. Right? That's awesome. Yeah, do that. Right. I want to protect my Indian heritage, but when it's a crossover, right, they're like, Oh, your culture appropriation like no motherfucker sharing my culture. Right. You don't understand that and it isn't what is the issue they have with. A lot of, uh, U. S. uh, what is U.

S. mostly? We have an identity crisis. We don't, we don't, we want to stay super, super, um, we purposely segregate ourselves. Like, we want to be Mexican and keep the Mexican community because we want to keep it. I'm like, cool, but then why are you sharing your topics with white people? Right? And the white people can't, like, be part of your barbecue, right?

When they go to your barbecue and then they try to take some of your traditions. And to share your recipe, just quote, quote, culture appropriation, right? Like what the hell? Yeah. Right? That's why it's called a melting pot. Right? But for some reason, we don't want to get into the pot, we just don't want to be segmented before getting into the pot.

Like oil and water. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, no, for sure, man. 

Luis Delgado: I think that's, I'm Mexican, Salvadorian, and American, 

Ian Fernando: so I feel like I'm 

Luis Delgado: split in different ways. But I think in the U. S., it's just. I don't want to say it's kind of been designed that way, but historically, we've been segregated. So I think it's just kind of played today.

It's changing now a 

Ian Fernando: bit, but... No, back in the day when I grew up, everybody was all about each other. Yeah. Like, in the hood, like everybody was all about, oh yeah, you know, let's, let's do that. Bring your, your Jewish friends here, you know, and now you get offended because people make a simple joke or, you know, they talk about whatever.

Right. Right. But... It's just a macro version of your culture, so why can't I talk about it? Yeah. That's just an issue. I think what I was gonna, I 

Luis Delgado: don't remember, I think you mentioned the word sensitive. I feel like people in the U. S. are just sensitive in general, just because they haven't had it hard. Which is a whole different topic, I know, but it's like...

Yeah, I can get it, yeah. Too 

Ian Fernando: bad, people are so soft, man. Yeah, they are. Well, the thing is, for example, my generation, my friend, they overlook their kids, right? Yeah. And I'm like, dude, let your daughter trip. Like, do you want me to trip her? Like, I'll trip her. Let me trip her. Right? So you don't feel bad. Yeah, I don't feel bad.

And the reason why, because... Like, you go to these schools, public schools, like, every kid's allergic, right? They're allergic to breathing, like, they fucking have, you know, all that shit. Like, when I grew up, like, we're going to the night climbing, building tree houses, doing bike, literally, probably trying to get ourselves killed on purpose, right?

But, that's because we were kids. Now... You can't even be a kid and enjoy the true value of exploration, true value of creativity, true value of, uh, self and the true value of like, you know, curiosity. Now you don't have it because you have somebody telling you that, oh, the internet says this, watch out, you can't be out at 6pm because, you know, the sun's too dark and I can't see you.

I'm like, what? Who cares? Your kid needs to be lost, right? That's, that's, the issue is... That there's so much information now that it created fear. Back in the day, there was no information, right? Limited access to information that there was fear, but there was still, uh, okay, just be careful. Type out it, right?

Right now, it's just so much information that we hear is a one negative issue. Probably 1% in your community and everybody's like, Oh my God, what's going on? That's another issue. Yeah, topic for another 

Luis Delgado: day. Definitely, that's another podcast. For sure. So taking it back. Um, you were creating this new business, like, not business, but just creating in a way that made sense for you, where you're able to travel, meet new people.

Um, you did that for, what, four or five 

Ian Fernando: years? Yeah, another four years, yeah, in years. Yeah, got it. 

Luis Delgado: So this is where, this is where it gets you to today, right? Yeah. Being in the same space. Yep. Just had some exits, well, in the process. Yeah. Um. So what would you say is that like, I mean, for some people that are watching, I mean, there's some people that are probably business owners themselves or trying to get into business, you know, what, what's, I guess, what's one thing that made, made you successful versus all the other hundreds of thousands of people have tried it and they just haven't been 

Ian Fernando: able to succeed.

I think you have to understand yourself, right? Because this, this question changes a lot for me sometimes, right? There's, there's a lot of people that get into business and then they try it for two, three, four, five years, but they have not been able to make a dollar. My message to you is like, dude, find another fucking venue.

Like, like, I, the example I use, like, okay, you're trying to go to the NBA, right? But you're saying your parents are pushing you like, oh, you're good. You're good people telling you you're good. But you have to realize yourself that you suck, right? Like. You realize, oh, I'm a far better sprinter, right, because I can go up to court far faster than anybody else on the court.

Once you realize that skill and take that and maybe like, oh, maybe I need to go to a track or track, track and field instead, right? Or, uh, soccer or football, right? Because that they value more in sprint game to run game than basketball, right? So once you realize your true self, I think it's important that, uh, you can move on or pivot.

Like with me, I realized that I don't, I don't want to be a C level, right? I don't want to be a CEO. Took me away from my skill, right? Which is media buying, creativity, creating an ad, creating an angle, doing landing pages, picking people in the buy, right? Things of that nature, right? So I think if you're, know who you are.

Um, and know when to stop and know that you cannot, you cannot progress anymore from where you're at. Then you can pivot to another, a new position, new role, new idea, right, new business, and go from there. It's funny and amazing how a lot of people say, 

Luis Delgado: kind of what you just said, it's like, knowing thyself, right?

It's like, it seems to be like the answer to... To a lot of your problems and a lot of like clarity, just getting to know who you are and what you want. I 

Ian Fernando: mean, I mean, I think it's really important because I, I know friends that are trying to do things in the affiliate space, but they've been doing it for six, seven years.

And when you're in the affiliate space and you can't even like, you can at least open an ad on TikTok right now and make your first dollar, right? And then are you able to make 1 turn to 100? That's the skill there, right? So if you realize you can do that, then maybe that is for you. But if you can, and you can be like, dude, I suck at this.

I can't do it. And you know, you have to understand like, oh man, I'm not good at coming up with angles. I'm not good with coming up with a perfect optimized landing page. I'm not good at ad copy. I'm not good at, um, coming up with, uh, testing page ideas, right? And there's a lot of guys that are coming to marketing.

That definitely, man, it's, it's, and. 

Luis Delgado: And that's just like the affiliate, right? I mean, there's Google ads, there's TikTok 

Ian Fernando: ads, Facebook ads, you have Snapchat, you have Pinterest ads, like you can advertise on Quora, advertise on Twitter, right? There's so many places to advertise. You have OTT now, YouTube, YouTube Shorts.

Like I've advertised, I mean you can advertise on Reddit, there's so many places to advertise. If Taboola is Outbrain native, there's... Man, I'm sure there's going to be a way 

Luis Delgado: to advertise in the VR, in the virtual reality as well. Oh yeah, 

Ian Fernando: I'm pretty sure they already have something like that out there. It has fast forward already?

I'm pretty sure. I'd want to see that. I'm pretty sure they have something out there already for that. That'd be insane. Yeah. But it's coming, I'm sure. Of course. Um, what... 

Luis Delgado: So I guess what practical advice do you have for someone that, um, I guess, I mean, I guess she already 

Ian Fernando: kind 

Luis Delgado: of 

Ian Fernando: answered that. Let me think of another question.

I just scratched that one. 

Luis Delgado: Um, so we're here today. So now, so now where, where are you, where are you trying to go now? Like what's, so that's interesting because you've been successful, you know, the past 15 years had some custom exits. Um, you know, and design a whole new business model where you're the one in charge and you're only responsible for yourself.

Yeah, but 

Ian Fernando: now what? Like, I don't know. What do you do? Like, 

Luis Delgado: at this point, like money is just like, you know, it's nice, but like you said, you don't necessarily want, it's not, it's not going to make you 

Ian Fernando: more happier. Yeah. Well, everybody in Michigan is a family. I'm like, 

Luis Delgado: I don't know about all that. 

Ian Fernando: Yeah. Um, I don't know.

So I started consulting two years ago during COVID, hoping to get ideas from CEOs. Right. Um, I still haven't found the perfect idea, but there's one company I consult for inviting me to be, uh, almost like a VP of their agency. Right. And I took this position because. Maybe I need to get back into a work environment with teams.

Working solo is awesome, but I'm not a very extrovert person, so for me, like, I need to talk to people. So, being put in this new position where I'm in now, managing people in the direction I want to go. Instead of trying to manage the creative team as a team, you know, everything now I have directors, team leads, and employees, and then obviously the bare bone employees, right?

I don't know if that's good to say. Right. So, but now I'm in this position where maybe it will help me explore the management lifestyle a little bit, right, in a proper way where I have proper structures. Because before being a CEO, we didn't really have a director, right? So everybody technically reported to me and my other two business partners at that time.

Right? So it got too much compounded. And that was back in the day where, you know, just running a company was the first time. Boom, boom, boom, boom. It was just like, oh, I don't think we need a director. Why do we need a director, right? It just costs money, right? Uh, but now I'm in a proper company where I can drive vision and drive results because I have structure, right?

So I don't know where version three of me might be going, right? But hopefully this new position that I'm in now is will bring me to a point of, you know, probably Good happiness challenge of proper challenges. I need like what happens is you get bored. I get bored. I get bored to making money, right? Good problem, right?

Yes, sir. Like, like I can throw up an ad and make money, right? Um, it's just easy for me. So now I just need a challenge. Hopefully with a 4d just new network I'm working with. Um, it allowed me to have proper challenges, team vibes, drive my vision, drive structure, drive revenue in a way that I probably haven't done properly before, right?

Because I probably did it inaccurately back in the day, just now have more proper structure. So we'll see where that goes, but obviously I don't know where the end goal is. I tend not to think too far ahead of time. I'm more of a present, present person type person. So, yeah. 

Luis Delgado: Gotcha. And that sounds like that's going to, you're going to start doing that from Brazil until, yeah, I guess you're going to decide how long you stay out there or why, why, why are you picking this part out?

Exactly. Got it. You know, one thing I do like about what you said is like that you get 

Ian Fernando: bored, you get bored, right? When 

Luis Delgado: you're good at something. And I think life in general, like things that are most worthwhile are things that challenge us, you know, if you don't have a challenge or some sort of struggle, healthy struggle, or even bad struggle, it just, It's almost like you need to struggle in life for you to value it, for it to be good once you do achieve certain things, right?

But it's also at the same time being aware that, you know, once you reach those goals, like it's just, it's a temporary feeling, right? It's not going to maintain there forever, right? You're always going to roll and fade. More, uh, you know, different or more, more challenges. 

Ian Fernando: Well, yeah, and that's why like kids nowadays should like go to the hood and get beat up on purpose.

Yeah, like, oh, I know how this feels. Okay, let's let me, let me not do this. I mean, So this is an action because nowadays when people fail in marketing or in their business, they think it's Somebody else's fault. It's the program's fault. It's Facebook's fault. But they don't understand, like, uh, maybe you don't have the skill.

Maybe you just suck at it. Or maybe you're not looking at a problem the right way. Or maybe you need to approach it in the wrong way. Like, there's a lot of thought process when you have a business. Right. Gotcha. All 

Luis Delgado: right, well look, I'm gonna, before we wrap up, I'm gonna ask you like, I think two more questions.

They're gonna be pretty random. Um, 

Ian Fernando: best place you've been to world like that you felt like, I 

Luis Delgado: guess, man, I inspired, 

Ian Fernando: I really love Vietnam. Vietnam is a perfect combination of, if I want to, if I wanted to categorize middle class, Vietnam would be middle class. I don't believe in in rich, I don't believe in middle class.

I always believe there's rich and poor, black and white ones and zeros. Right. Um, but Vietnam has a perfect medium of like, just upcoming, structurally developed, good food, people are nice, right? And it's just an amazing vibe there, right, for me. So I think Vietnam is, is an amazing, amazing spot for me. I thought I was going to actually live there.

Man, you just, I mean, I've always 

Luis Delgado: wanted to go to Vietnam, been to Asia, but not Vietnam. I think that's going to. If you're going out there next year, let me know, man. It'd be cool to visit. Um, but for the last question, um, it's... Out of all the things you've done up 

Ian Fernando: to today, what would you say that you're most proud of?

I think my most proud moment 

Luis Delgado: is when people ask 

Ian Fernando: me to do something that I didn't think I would be good at, right? And by that, I mean like, for example, when I get clients, I don't go out to get clients. People refer them to me. My first speaking gig? I thought I didn't know. I was a beginner in marketing.

Somebody thought that, Oh, you actually know what you're talking about. I want you to speak. Right? Um, I think that that I think that chain of events where people will see value in me by just me giving value, I think is important because I'll add on to that because my speaking engagements, it was very, very random.

I never saw myself a speaker. I didn't. I was probably my second year full time in the affiliate industry. And Sean Collins from affiliate Song, uh, asked me to speak at Bo at the Boston event. Mm-hmm. . And I was like, sure enough, prepping my cards. And, and I'm like, dude, I never saw myself as a speaker, but over time it count compounded that I knew what I, I was talking about, but I became speakers internationally and I just came back from California speaking at a private mastermind event.

Mm-hmm. , right. And, um, Yeah, I think when people see value, they want to, you know, take advantage of the value and they want to use it, right, to provide value elsewhere with clients. Again, I don't have to go seek out clients, right? Just clients seek out to me and they're paying five to six figures a month, right?

So, yeah. Awesome. And where can people find you? Uh, you can find me at ianfernando. com or ianfernando. com forward slash social, right? But mainly ianfernando. com. Got it. Well, man, it was great to have you on the 

Luis Delgado: show today, man. 

Ian Fernando: Thank you, brother. Thank you.

Being a digital nomad can seem like a dream. You have the freedom to live in any country you want, work a few hours here or there, explore wondrous places and cultures, and then move on to a new country whenever you want. I wanted to go all-in with our businesses and have more freedom in my life.

Quick Benefits of a Digital Nomad

Here is the reason why being a Digital Nomad is good and why I chose it:

At first, I planned to stay as a digital nomad for around 1 year, but I ended up extending my travels for another 8 years because I enjoyed it so much. The culture, the food, the people, and the exploration. It was such a great experience, I loved every aspect of it.

Then 8 years later, I have seen most of Asia and felt I needed a base, a place I can call home after being gone for so long. I really never had a base - a place I can call home, I had an Airbnb. I never enjoyed booking a new Airbnb, or saying I missed my Airbnb. It never felt like home.

However, every lifestyle has its pros and cons, and for me, one of the biggest cons was not being able to see my family and friends for long periods of time. I would miss big events like birthdays and weddings. New friend relationships are a handshake and a goodbye.

I didn't mind making new friends, I am naturally an extrovert but relationships seem to always reset in every country I am in.

It was also a lot of work, from researching places to booking flights and hotels to travel planning. It could be quite taxing, especially since I had to start over every time I arrived in a new location. Maintaining good habits and routines was also challenging, and towards the end, I became a little numb to the amazing experiences we were having because it had become the norm for me.

Eventually, I did things on the go, I felt more comfortable just doing things on the fly and not overthinking, enjoying the present time and day vs. stressing over tomorrow. Though being a digital nomad is great, there are flaws, and I even mentioned a couple above.

The downside of a Digital Nomad

Here are some reasons why being a digital nomad was hitting a toll on me:

  1. Loneliness and Isolation: If you're a digital nomad traveling alone, it might be lonely and isolating. Making new friends in strange environments can be difficult, and you can miss having your family and friends around for support and company.
  2. Burnout and overworking: It might be easy for a digital nomad to become caught up in the cycle of overworking and burning out. You might experience stress and exhaustion as a result of the constant pressure to produce and fulfill deadlines.
  3. Travel Fatigue: Moving constantly from one location to another can be demanding and tiresome, particularly if you are coping with jet lag, strange surroundings, and several time zones. Maintaining a healthy routine might be difficult when your surroundings are constantly changing.
  4. Lack of Stability: Living a nomadic lifestyle as a digital nomad can be unexpected and unstable, making it difficult to make long-term plans. You would not have a consistent source of income, and you might struggle to locate housing in new locations.
  5. Culture Shock: Living and working abroad can be exhilarating, but it can also be stressful and difficult. This is known as culture shock. Dealing with culture shock, language barriers, and strange habits can be hard and draining.

Each of these bullets has a solution. In isolation, I tend to go to meetups, go out, and keep meeting people randomly. I am very extroverted and enjoy people, even if the language barrier is very high. It is about absorbing experiences and having a very open mind about life and your environment.

My Homebase is Sao Paulo, Brazil

In the end, I loved my time as a digital nomad, but I was ready to move on to the next chapter and have Sao Paulo, Brazil as my real home base. I still want the freedom to travel as much as possible, and Brazil was a good choice, it is a huge country.

Here it reminds me of New York and how fast it moves. The diversity of food and the ease of access to natural food is a huge priority for me. The other thing that makes Brazil attractive to me is the fact it is huge. A country as massive as Brazil still allows me the freedom of travel, but without the aspect of travel.

I can plan with friends, and not have to reset a relationship. I can just pick a flight and go and not really plan. I do not have to think about visas or paperwork needed for entry.

The fact Sao Paulo reminds me of New York feels like home. It has the vibe of New York with the people diversity, Amazon and online deliveries, amazing restaurants, etc. I fell in love after 2 weeks of visiting last year. I plan on staying for 2 years full-time and seeing if it is the perfect fit for me.

For me, what's most important is the freedom to choose how I live my life. Whether being a digital nomad is worth it or not depends on your personal values and goals. It's not as glamorous as it can seem, but if you have realistic expectations and know what you want to get out of it, it can be an incredible experience.

No one will understand you better than another media buyer! It was the guys from Scrooge Frog who started their way from media buying and then created their own service provider, where they collected the most necessary services for you. Based on your pains and needs, they came up with a good product, let's take a look at it!

About the service provider Scrooge Frog

Scrooge Frog is a service provider since 2007 specializing in advertising traffic.

They help to attract customers through native advertising and social media advertising;

International and local traffic sources, turnkey work from pre-moderation to traffic tracking with optimization for results;

They are practitioners and use modern data sources and regularly expand the database of new sources.

In the partner world, they speak in numbers, and this service provider in marketing has been working with more than 50 different geos around the world for more than 15 years - North and South America, Europe, Asia, and Africa. What's more, they have an ad budget of over 2 million euros and they've worked with over 100 native platforms, from Taboola to local native networks, you're sure to find any geo!

Therefore, they have experience in advertising in social networks, for example:

They work with client accounts and fully control them. In-app traffic they work with consists of a huge number of messengers and mobile browsers. 

When working with such a team of professionals the client receives accounting and support at all stages, due to experience they will find and help with different types of traffic and optimize it, they have many different services that you will get acquainted with in this article!

Agency AD accounts. Facebook & TikTok, etc

The most important problems in ad accounts are bans and fast approvals, and the service provider Scrooge Frog helps with this! 

Service provider Scrooge Frog offers ad accounts from the most popular social networks - Facebook, TikTok, Twitter, Bigo (Likee, Imo) and over 100 other native and social networks from around the world. The main advantage is that they keep records and support at all stages and their accounts have fewer problems with bans and have direct support from each network during moderation. They know how to work with account blocking and what to do to avoid it.

As a bonus, they have a branded checklist with detailed rules for working with accounts!

The agency account differs from the self-service ad accounts in the following advantages:

In-app. MI & Petal, etc 

So, you have finally created your mobile app and are ready to present it to the world? Congratulations. But if you don’t advertise your app to your target audience, it will get lost in a sea of other apps.

We often hear the phrase ‘everyone should mind their own business’, because it’s true that an app developer should remain a developer and not waste his time on promotion and advertising. For this case, there is a service provider Scrooge Frog because they are rapidly developing in this niche!

The guys from Scrooge Frog also have in-app advertising support. In most cases it is used in such applications Kwai, Bigo (Likee, Imo), Petal Ads, MediaGo, SAN 2.0 (SHAREit), Mobupps, Adzhubmedia, App Samurai, Bidmatrix, Xapads (MI, Xerces), AdCountry, Backgardon, AppricotAds, 

And here are the main advantages of working with them for in-app traffic:

In the latest trends, in-app advertising is generating more and more revenue, and they provide access to international and private sources.

Local & worldwide native networks

The Scrooge Frog’s team has been advertising goods and services using native advertising for 15 years, and who better than them will provide high-quality traffic? In addition, not only worldwide, but also local traffic from, for example, Japan, Vietnam, India, Saudi Arabia, Kenya.

What the service provider offers to the client:

And most importantly, few people know how to replenish in local currencies and communicate in local support!


Service provider Scrooge Frog, due to their experience and knowledge of the “pains” and “goals” of the affiliate world, can afford high-quality fresh traffic, without fraud and bots. Also, the agency accounts service is at “the peak of popularity”, here you will find accounts from the most popular ad networks with full support! 

Moreover, the owner of Scrooge Frog is Konstantin Novofastovsky - an honorary speaker at world conferences of affiliate marketing. 

An impressive number of services in one place - conveniently and quickly from professionals with Scrooge Frog, fast and efficient access

Try and you will succeed! Contact them

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