Anna: All right. And we are live with our next speaker, the wonderful Ian Fernando. Hi, Ian.
Ian: How you doing? How's everything?
Anna: Really good. We'll wait, just one more minute for our friends to come back in. Thank you for joining the speech with Harran earlier.
Ian: Yeah, no problem. I actually want to try to get back on out brain because you know, band issues in the past.
Anna: Well, it happened to a lot of us, you know? You and I have been doing this for a really long time. We know each other for years now and I think it happened to everyone at one point, but Harran made a really good point that their policies really do change all the time.
Ian: You know, just like any traffic stories, for sure.
Anna: Exactly. Hi Mike, hi Vasi, awesome seeing you here. What we've noticed, I mean, you know, with MaxWeb, we have a lot of VSLs and historically for example, like a couple of years ago, it was so hard to get some of those on outbreak, right? And now as long as we have a good communication and we make the changes that they want from us, it's actually quite reasonable. It's quite reasonable. And what I personally like about native too, is the consistency. So, from the side of the product owner, I love consistency.
Ian: Yeah. I agree. I mean, traffic sources changes algos all the time, so it's just adapting to it. I mean, Google and Facebook change algos way too often than most.
Anna: Yeah, exactly. Well, one more minute. I know a lot of people already know who you are, but for the ones that don't, you're like, oh, you're so humble. It's like, what? But tell us a bit about you, who you are, you know, your journey and how you got to be where you are today.
Ian: Yeah, sure. I guess I've been in online space for close to 15 years. No, a little over 15 years ready. Full time as an affiliate market, 12 years. So I basically started basically just running ads, not ads, but trying to hack MySpace and selling eBooks in MySpace, then selling stuff on eBay. At that time, usually working three jobs just because I think I pissed off my parents so much that they kicked me out of their house.
So I was like, oh man, I need to make some cash now. But now I was like, oh man, I got to work three jobs. I was actually a call center rep, a waiter on the weekends. And during the morning I was a human resource manager. And I thought to myself, like, man, this can't be like the American dream.
So I was like, is there a way that I can get rid of one job or get rid of at least two jobs and keep one. Like my goal is actually just to keep one job and the highest paying job. Right. And the highest paying job at that time was had given me the biggest chance, it would be a call center agent, which I rose up at top of that company to be a telecom analyst. It took two years to be telecom analyst. And telecom analyst actually helped me with my affiliate marketing, because being an analyst is very important with [inaudible03:32].
But after a couple times of like getting rid of my waitering job, and then I was like, man, I just need to get rid of this human resource job. And I was sitting with my friend and my friend was saying, he's like, man, if only I could make 40K a year, I would be perfect.
And I looked at him, I'm like, dude, like you're worth 40K here. And that's where it just starts flipping off. And like, man, I guys just going to push hard. I'm going to push hard on my eBay. I'm going to push hard on MySpace. I'm going to push hard on Google. And at that time, I was making some decent money on eBay and I couldn't deal with customer relationships because I was still working three jobs and then I selling stuff on eBay, and the customer relationship was hard. So,, I actually had to Google how to make money online without customers, and I actually found affiliate marketing.
When I found affiliate marketing, I worked with the Google ads back in the day, I worked with Never Blue and they were the ones that helped me learn Google straightforward, helped me from going from a hundred dollars a week to a hundred dollars a day, to a thousand dollars a week to a thousand dollars a day. And I've always shop them out, even though they're not here anymore. Their company's not here anymore; they're the one that actually helped me a lot with affiliate marketing, just especially with Google and keyword targeting and all that.
Anna: That's awesome. And thank you so much for sharing because you know, this is a big testimony and we always talk about this on how it's really not that hard. And now is the time more than ever if people are really serious about changing careers, you know, sometimes when people hear us talk about stuff like this, they see it as like a crazy unachievable dream to like quit your job and just do this full time. I mean, Ian, he was so... we obviously have not rehearsed any of this. I say this all the time. I say this all the time. It's just putting in the work in the hustle, and you don't have to have - at least your goals at first.
You should have, you know, you start with realistic goals, make enough to just quit your job. Just make, you know, that should be your goal. And I just personally, you know, when we're asked what we give back as a business. Well, for me, when I hear stories of affiliates starting and doing really good and being able to quit their jobs and then, you know, they get to the 1K a day, the 10 K a day is just, oh, that's so amazing. I'm excited. So, thank you for sharing that everyone is loving your story. That's awesome.
Ian: I mean, that's how it really like. I mean, I didn't actually want an entrepreneur. I didn't want an affiliate. I didn't traveler. I didn't want any, I just wanted to keep one job. So my motivation was to get rid of at least two slowly over time, and then I just thought to myself, Hey, if I was able to get two, I have about three months, four months of savings. Can I do this in at least 60 days where I can replace my yearly salary? And then within about, I think it was 45 days where I hit my year salary, within that 45 days just work cranking out like 18 hour days. And that's where I'm like, okay, I can actually do this. This is real. Let me go full time on it. But it definitely has ups and downs. I mean, I've also been through depression, you know, just because this is a rollercoaster driven event, you know?
Anna: Well, I'm glad you said that because you know, we had this conversation and it's a deep level to go into at 9:00 AM in the morning, but a lot of entrepreneurs don't always talk about this - the depression side of working on your own and having that, you know, is the continuous hustle and working hard. And when you work for yourself, many times, I don't know, it's pretty challenging. And then you get to certain numbers and everyone around you has the expectations of you always beating that and being more badass than you were, you know, last year. So, thank you for sharing that. Do you still feel like a lot of people don't really talk about stuff like this in the industry?
Ian: Oh yeah, of course. I mean, you know what, there's this stigma of online where this is the reason why gurus are like so successful because they're like, Hey, here's my Lambo, you know? I mean, the only reason why I can very relevant is because I actually know. And I don't care about talking about these ups and downs, because this is real. This is like actually real life stuff where, you know, you will like lose a million dollars in a year, one time. Right. You will go through depression more than once. And the fact is, as long as you have a circle like I till all the time about like, you know, some issues where campaigns are down or like I'm having a bad day and he's there to support me and push me on the wall and be like, Hey, you know, get back up. As long as I have my circle, then that's good because that's really, really important.
Anna: That's awesome. And you know, a lot of affiliates are chiming in and thanking you for sharing all respect for your motivation towards achieving your goals. So, depression is a huge part of it. I completely agree with you. I always have to go back to my trip is to stay sane. You know, it's part of it, it's hard, right? Even if people don't want to talk about this, and it's okay. At the end of the day, we're saying it's part of it. Don't get freaked out. Reach out to your community. That's why you should have a tribe. You should have people around you that you can chat with. You know, Madalina says hard workers are always to be appreciated. Thanks for sharing this.
Ian: Welcome everybody. Welcome. No problem. I can't even wait to share what I got for you guys.
Anna: I'm excited. What do you have for us?
Ian: So, just watching the last series with Harran, it's basically like an extension of that, right? How to optimize your pages, how to basically get the best lower your CPA by, you know, just easily collecting one small thing and tagging people, right? There's a lot of affiliates that just wanted send the traffic to the offer. And that's awesome. I've done that in the past. Like, I'm a really direct response marketer. I want to just be like, hey, this is something for you, this is beneficial, and this is why you need it right now and you need to take action right now, right? Those days are gone, right? Arbitrage CPCs are definitely gone, so now you have to have a better way to manage that traffic and managing that traffic is by collecting data. And by collecting data is the only way to leverage and lower your CPAs over time.
And it is a little harder to mathematically analyzed because you do not understand from a day one opt in when that person will convert, right. You need a really good tracking platform, and there's really no platform that does it very, very well right now. And the only way I do it is by adding the unique user IDs or at least affiliates in the tracking link so then I can track them later on. But that's the thing, you know, just collecting data from push data to hard email data, to SMS, to a lot of stuff, so it's the best way to actually leverage that traffic. And leveraging the traffic nowadays, especially with tier one and tier twos, especially like Out Brain and Tubulo, where they will become a tier one type traffic source now, they will be like a really good source to actually compete with Facebook and Google later on.
Anna: That's awesome. Well, I'll let you get into your stuff, but people are already asking you questions, you know, this is what you get for being so awesome. So Kamakshi is asking - do you have a routine each day that keeps you so successful?
Ian: I do have a routine, right. I do have a routine, so I wake up usually by seven o'clock. I wake up super early day because I was actually super excited to do this, you know, and I was like, oh man. So my routine usually is I try to go to the gym, but now COVID and the pandemic is providing us like lockdown in Puerto Rico, I do like push up stretches for about 15 to 20 minutes. I have my breakfast, I work ,and I work in three to four hour increments where I work for three to four hours, take a break, do errands, do something for an hour and a half and then do another two to three hours from there. And then the last part is the one to two hours at the end of the day. So that's kind of my workflow routine, you know what I mean? So most of my stuff is up pack in the front where I need to get a lot of stuff done, and then I aggregate things slowly hour by hour.
Anna: I love it. I love it. Emily is saying no way, you're in Puerto Rico too. You see, so many friends here. I love it. Well, their question is going in with the one we got from one of our affiliates on Skype. He's saying, do you spend a lot of time in front of the computer, affiliates usually work less than the regular nine to five?
Ian: So, I mean, I try. It's kind of hard for me. So there are days where I have to be in front the computer and there are days where I just take phone calls and build my relationships. So, I'm not a nine to five guy. Like most of my workload is really up in my first four hours. So you can say I work four hours a day, but I also have increments of work where I have to write my notes, I got to, you know, do a little bit of reading, I have to you know spot check my campaign. You know what I mean? So there are these things that I have to do throughout the day, but the bulk of my other workload is usually in the morning, the first part of the day.
Anna: That's awesome. And you know, Harran and I touch based on this. And every time I chat with people, they have this conception that in our industry, we have this super easy jobs where we don't ever have to work. But many times you have to, you know, even if you split the workload, then you don't work from nine until five; through the day, chances are, everyone works way more hours than that. The cool part is just, you can shift the hours around and you can, you know, how you said you work three hours and you could do something else.
Ian: Yeah. I mean, I've traveled Asia and I took a year off in just marketing. And I just enjoy like a full year, year and a half, just not looking at computers so often. But then there's a time now where I'm like, oh man, now I'm kind of bored, I need to find a full direction what I want do. So, there's a lot of stuff that's going to works right now.
Anna: That's fantastic. Well, I heard that you have some slides for us.
Ian: Yeah, I am going to hit the share screen on here I'm assuming, right?
Anna: I love it. Yes.
Ian: Okay.
Anna: Worst case we'll just see your room, which is beautiful by the way.
Ian: You see my screen?
Anna: Yeah, I'm adding it to the stream right now. Beautiful.
Ian: Okay. Everybody see the slide? Since I'm going to hit present, I guess I won't be able to see the comments. So I'll just go through this and I know you just, you know, stop, pause me or whatever you need to do.
Anna: You got it. I'll keep an eye on the chat too, for questions as you go through everything.
Ian: So guys, I don't know if you guys are just coming in or I know it definitely introduced me earlier. So my name is Ian Fernando, and you can find me all over the internet under the handle Ianternet. Basically when I first started online, Ianternet came to mind because the internet was just so brand new and I was like, you know what, the internet was just spelled wrong. So I called myself Ianternet because I wanted take over internet if you guys get that handled. Now, today, we're going to talk about okay... so today Leadgen to offer traffic strategy, and the goal for this is basically revamping your landing pages. And everybody wants to do a jump page, like a single jump page to the offer, which is great. You're basically filtering traffic. And from the last presentation, Harran basically says, you want to filter that traffic, right?
And the reason why you want to do that is because creating asset is super important nowadays. For the past, I wouldn't say seven years, I've been collecting data and it's been su per important to properly utilize that data in a good way, because like Harran says, you can test all these traffic sources of the competition, but then let's say the algorithm changes with Facebook or let's say Tabula is buying Out Brain, right?
There's that merger, what's going to have what the potential what's going to happen with OutBrain, right? There's these issues that might change and having this email list or data of like their phone numbers, emails, their addresses, you know, it's very, very important to collect. And when I first started online, all these marketers back in the day, like your Mike Phillip Sames, and you have Russell Brunson, like they were my mentors, like Joe Com, like they were my mentors back online and they always said, Hey, collecting data is part of being a powerful asset because when you have nothing, you can always send at least one email and make, you know, a couple thousand dollars off that depending how big the list is. And they do say the powers on the list.
And being an affiliate marketer, we do get greedy, I've been greedy, right? I've bought all these fancy stuff that you see these crew doing. And I realized later on that, okay, what am I going to show for? I have nothing because yes, I have skillset to run traffic to any type of offer - run traffic or run offers to any type of traffic source either and still trying to be profitable or be profitable if I put enough time. But what happened when the traffic stopped? So this is the reason why having an email list or an assets is important. Basically talking about that.
I want to talk to you about one thing here, right? So there is an issue back where I had my list and this couldn't result in the potential of close to three ends on my list, I collected seven years of data. I had roughly about close to 2.2 0.7 million records. And at that time we were making so much money with our own internal - offer, right. This is how I thought this is how as an affiliate marketer, direct stock marketer thought if I made $10,000 a day by buying ads revenue and being profitable at $10,000 a day, right. Is it worth it for me to make $10,000 a month and manage my email? To a normal affiliate direct fund marketer story go, the question would probably be no, because you're making, you know, 30 times that by the end of the month, so there's no point to spend time on email. And that was my mistake. So over time, these records, they basically just diluted and they lost their value.
And when I tried to revamp this list, it just basically became garbage. And Anna, you know, like once data is not used, it does not have value, you know what I mean? People change their emails all the time. You have to clean the list, you lost the relationship, they don't know who you are. So, this is the reason why since that company, that company that I had in the past is now gone and now I have all these records, if I sent an email, I've only probably made couple thousand dollars, but I could have made a potential $10,000 consistently over 120 a year over X amount of years while I had that company. And so, now where I'm at now, that could have made at least three million today. So that was the loss of potential. And over time, this is why like a lot of email [unclear19:59], they value their leads at $2 - $3. And then DOIs Optims, they value their leads almost close to $30 because they know there's money that lit in those leads.
And that's the reason why when we, as affiliate run sweeps and we send them email data, this is what they're doing. They're collecting as much data as they can and see where they can put these people on a specific path to make money. So now my question to everybody is what would you do with 3 million records? This is question that people don't know what to do, even advertisers, even me as an advertiser, I didn't know what to do. I didn't. I gave that question of like, is it better to not make a constant $10,000 a month? When I was already making 10K a day, right? Eventually that 10K day turned into almost a 100K a day in Nutri spend where I had to double pay American express twice a day. And then my record just became trashed.
We started selling the data after about seven days because since we're not doing anything, we decide, Hey, what else can we do with this? Can we give it to an email service provider where they can clean and monetize it or do we just sell it? And at that point, since I was a big media buyer and my business partner was big media buyer, we just wanted concentrate on ads and crank ads and just do that just because I know I'm good at. Because email marketing is definitely a skill, so go ahead and leave it in the comments. And I watching the comments like, yo, what are you going to do with the emails afterwards?
Anna: Yeah, one of the questions is actually how are you best managing segmenting the data. So lets say you do have a lot of records, you know, how do you manage it?
Ian: Yeah. So segmenting the data is definitely difficult, right. I segment data based on opens and clicks, right. And then later on I do it by surveys, depending on how everybody interacts. So this way, if people open, but they don't click. I mean, there's a problem with interaction and engagement. If people do not even click open the email then and put them in a different sub bucket where maybe I have to trigger their interest some other way. So that's how I basically segment it. That's the only technically way to really segment email. You can definitely segment it by conversions. I know Market Hero is only one that can probably segment data on conversions, but you can also do it with any click tracking platform. You just have to run analytics properly, like, especially like in any tracking, you just make sure you add in the email data in your link and you'll have, and you can filter people by email and then you can see, Hey, this person converted X amount of time over X amount of emails.
Anna: Love it.
Ian: So why do we feel least not collect the... oh, sorry, go ahead.
Anna: No, the questions are coming in. You wanted this now, you know, get ready. Goran is asking, do you do some warmup with email sequences or just send them offers?
Ian: Yeah, so I'll definitely talk about that later. So that would be definitely part two of the strategy, but the first part's obviously getting into the landing page part, which is kind of important. And then there's a specific data point that I want to mention out. So let's go slowly. If I'm going too slow, Anna again, just let me know, and then just go to meat and bones and stuff.
Anna: I love it. And I'll just kindly interrupt you if I say any questions and then you like with Goran, we will come back to this later. Christopher is asking, is running Sweeps on Facebook still a profitable one. Is there another traffic source also that has high conversion rate, I guess this is for Sweeps and Facebook.
Ian: Yeah. Sweeps and Facebook. I don't know. I don't run sweeps on Facebook just because CPCs and engagements and then managing Facebook balances is a big issue. I'm trying to leave that space because it managing Facebook ads is just a pain and I hate it. Doing that for so many years, I don't want to do that more. I want to have like two, three or four and be comfortable. This is why I'm trying to do more white hat, more strategic things. So, why do affiliates do not collect data? Like I mentioned to you guys before, it's basically an extra skill set. You have to understand heavy copy, right? Like, yes, we know about ad copy, but we need to start learning how to actually do sales copy with emails, conversion copy and emails, engagement copy and emails. Then we have to start learning about inboxing how Yahoo changes with Gmail and all that other stuff.
And then the relationships with affiliate managers, how some of affiliate manager, they don't want email traffic or they might want email traffic. There's a lot of stuff that happens like, and this is the reason why I didn't want to do email in the past is because even though we hired somebody to just write emails, we didn't really concentrate on the inboxing. We didn't really concentrate, oh, let's segment Gmail only, let's segment only Yahoo, let's only segment Microsoft, right? So, it's just a huge other business. And at that time in my career, I didn't want to do that. I wanted to concentrate on media buying analytics, how can I better lower my CPCs and lower CPAs right.
There's a lot of data we can collect. There is email, which is the most important I think. And then we use ESPs which are email service providers, like an awebber get response and phone numbers where you can send SMS to them. SMS is kind of a sketchy error right now, I believe; it's just because you cannot send more than three texts a day within a four hour gap, I believe. And then there's addresses with direct mail and then the second most popular one, which I also do like to do is push notifications. Obviously, email is the best, but push notification would be second best, then for me would be phone numbers, then the last one would be direct mail. Direct mail does get expensive over time and even more strategic. Then you have to look at mile radius from people you don't know the true demographic of the specific mile radius, so you have think about that, right?
Anna: Yep. I'm going to interrupt you for a question here because I have a feeling we're going to get a lot, so as much as we can to answer to some of our friends. So Jerry's asking as a newbie, what kind of CRM or email autoresponder do you recommend?
Ian: Okay. So as a beginner, best one to probably use is probably MailChimp, because it's free and super easy to use. The next one to use, I think is a little bit more advanced is Sending Blue, Sending Blue is far better, I believe. Just because they have actually segmenting segregations in their platform where I don't think you can do that with MailChimp currently. And then there is Market Hero where you can actually track convert based on emails. I think they're the most advanced one in the game. I do know one of the inboxers there, he used to be one of my mentors back in the day. So, I think those are the ones, but currently I use - since I now segment properties because I do want to keep my assets tight as possible to sell them later. I use a plugin called called Mailster and then I use a SMTP service called [unclear27:44], so this way all the contacts stay in one website. And this way, if I do sell that website later on, they can just take everything off the server or I can just give server to them, all the data and information. I try to make it as easy as possible to sell off the asset later on.
Anna: That's awesome. Perfect. Sam on our team got a question from someone on Skype. Lead Gen works on BSL offers as well?
Ian: Oh yes. This is the point of the slide you are going and learn today.
Anna: I love it. And I don't know if you know much, but Mazharoddin is asking if you know of Pinterest being profitable. I can personally say I've seen people be very profitable with Pinterest. I don't know if you, Ian ever tried that. But sure.
Ian: Yeah. So, I actually just recently started Pinterest ads. It's a pretty interesting platform. So, we started this huge conversation in my advents community and so for me it's super easy to use, but very engaging with very little conversions. But I think if the offer that I have, right, so I want to try something that's more DIY and all that stuff. So it's still in testing mode for me. I haven't been profitable on it or highly profitable on it, so it's still a good test for you to do later on.
Anna: Awesome. Beautiful. I'll let you go back to the slides. I'll just interrupt you when I have more question.
Ian: So here's the typical to offer strategy. Again, like I stayed in the past most affiliates, we're lazy affiliates. I know I was a lazy affiliate. This is what we do, we just want to spend the traffic directly to the offer, if possible. I know affiliates that basically send traffic to an offer and it works. Sometimes even some send it straight to a smart link. I do to this day I send smart link offers to traffic and they convert because it's easy. There's no work to be done. But again, if you want to lower CPAs for higher end offers like let's say high ticket offers, you know, offer that are paying a $100 CPA, $50 CPA, you know, or if your average order value for an advertising or average order value 150, you should be collecting leg gen or emails.
And the funnel is obviously simple - goes from a landing page to an email optin, the confirmation page is obviously in the middle. This is an important part of the strategy; you want to tag these users, right? And then it goes to the affiliate offer after the fact. Then four, five, and six is obviously your email series. And that's basically the most simplest way to do it. In the past, a lot of people are selling this strategy and for like a thousand dollars and I'm like, dude, that's so BS. This is the most easiest thing to really implement today. But it's stuff that - a strategy that nobody thinks of because it is another skill to kind of learn. So, here is a sample opt in. This was a clickfunnel optin page that I I've used in the past. So there is just the landing page, obviously here, there's a video - actually, I have it up here.
Anna: I love it. That looks nice. Thank you for sharing that. Nice.
Ian: Yeah. So what I do is I take a screenshot of the VSL, so this is specifically for a VSL. I've done this multiple times and seen stuff or earnings on my backend for the offers. So, we do VSL with screenshot here, or I do a juff here of something like... like some VSL are like 30 minutes long, so I do like something from like 15 minutes or somewhere in the middle of the VSL where I take a quick 32nd screenshot and I put it in here. So they're like, oh, there's something happen, for sure. I actually put the author because on the VSL, an author on there. And then I'll just say something like exclusive video for serious people that want to lose weight. And then they enter in the name, email and phone number. Those are kind of two information I collect...
And then I'll put in here - the things I put here are kind of important because you want to explain what's going on the next page, especially for VSL, the VSL you want to say this video is 45 minutes long, in order to consume the information properly, make sure you have 45 minutes. Or you want to talk about what the issues there because there's always a story behind it. Or you want to put in the social proofs on lower because some VSL to have on the page, their own reviews. So, you want to put that there too, right? And you want to mimic this page specifically strictly... that's a page I'm working on guys. Not for you.
Anna: This is awesome. I love that you're sharing like specific stuff with us. This is fantastic.
Ian: Yeah, no problem. So this is fat, which is on Maxweb. So this is basically the simple VSL, right? And you can take anything on these pages and use them. Like you can even copy part of this or here is a very simple strategy to do, some of these VSL they put it on YouTube, and they do so much volume that they don't care when people actually click on this and go to YouTube. And this is how you kind of skip the VSL, but the targeting for these type of VSL are for people that probably don't understand how to do this. So this is where I can skip in between, take this off and turn into like a slide or PDF and put it on, on here, so that's kind of the way to really do it.
Anna: That's awesome. And this question actually goes in beautifully here. What tool did you use to create the opt-in page? Looks really great.
Ian: Yeah, so this is click funnels. I used Clickfunnels. I used Optimized Press, and I also use Subscribe Funnels, which is another drag and drop editor. I use Clickfunnels specifically just to test the traffic and then I take it off click funnels when I do high volume. And the reason I do that is because Clickfunnels just very slow. They double and encrypt their pages so nobody can actually copy their landing pages. It actually loads within like five seconds, which is not good for high volume. I basically take this, I give it to my designer or developer, they rip it on their own, and then we put it on a vulture, which loads the landing pages within less than a second within like 300 milliseconds, and that's kind of the goal. What you want to do is use these builders to test, and then when you scale out, put them on a real server.
Anna: That's a good point. That's a really good point. And Goran is asking regarding the email funnel and what works, what worked better for you, desktop or mobile?
Ian: It doesn't matter. So for VSLs, it's more so desktop. Let me get in this slide because that's a number I want to get into. Let me go back to it.
Anna: Love it. This is awesome. [Inaudible35:29] sure did.
Ian: What goes on a Lander? We just talked about it. Mimic offer, social proof and you just want to mimic the page as much as possible to the offer. So, next one is tagging, which is the important part. Now, what I wanted to answer as somebody asked, like the conversion rates, you know, what to - is a desktop, mobile, right? This is where it becomes important. It doesn't matter technically. What I've noticed from a Lander to offer, from optin to offer, there is a click through rate, click through rate or optin rate. I'll consider optin rate in this sequence in comparison to CTR, landing page CTR the same because they are technically relevant.
There is a drop in landing page CTR, so for me, it was roughly a three - the lowest of 3% to high of 7% drop of optin CTR to offer. And that's because one, I believe people do not want to give up their information that easily. And two, sometimes you are just curious and want to see the price and you don't want this type of users, so this is where tagging is very important. Tagging the users with Google tag managers, pixelating them with Facebook text pixels. And this will tell you, Hey, these guys are coming from desktop, mobile. My optin are array through mobile is X amount of optin rate through desktop is X amount. And this is where you want to tag them because especially with Facebook, now you can create a look alike audience based on actionable users. And this is the part.
There is also another strategy which can tag users on your landing page without optin, but this is much, much better because you want to make sure that they are taken action and they are engaging, because sometimes random clicks happen and you don't want to create a lookalike audience facing that. At least you have a serious user that is actually putting in their information and now you can actually create a big audience through your lookalikes.
And we just talked about this by retargeting campaigns later on, especially if they did optin; you can send, show them the VSL straight to the offer at this time because you are retargeting them and be like, Hey, we've noticed you, haven't blocked this video through your retargeting campaign. Or if you're collecting the push data, you can send them push information later on like, hey, you were stuck at 15 minutes, please continue watching the video. And obviously the most important part is pixelating through Facebook and creating a lookalike audience on there.
And obviously you go to the offer page and that's it, right? The offer conversions happening on Max website or on affiliate network site, you can see that happening; the only problem is you cannot tag users. You can definitely talk to the advertisers. Some advertisers will allow you to put their pixels, but it becomes so overcrowded with pixels that there will be pixel issues, and that's the reason why advertiser do not do it. So, there is a way to fire, post to a Facebook pixel page, but it does also conflict with tag manager. There's no perfect way, in my opinion. Anna, correct me if I'm wrong, there's no way to actually properly throw a pixel tag manager analytics on the conversion side of the offer.
Anna: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Ian: It's just very, very difficult. And this is why tagging in the middle of it is very, very important. So, now you have all email data. Now, what kind of email do you send? Obviously there is the welcome email, like thank you for opting in; here's the link to the video. Boom, that's it.
Now, the next step is to get started on a journey, which is more of like an information reminder because you want to warm up the user, you don't want to force the user. You don't want to shove emails and conversion down to your throat. You want to be like, hey, this is a strategy, blah, blah, blah. And this is what was mentioned in the VSL. Here is a link to it, let me break it down and have bullet points or something of that nature.
What I tend to do in this step, especially if there's a text in VSL is I get somebody on Fiverr. I get everybody, I get the person on Fiverr to take the text VSL and turn into PDF and they get a downloaded product. Right now this is actually a very smart strategy because you, at the end of the day, especially on match web and click bank, you can actually send them directly to the checkout page right, from the PDF. So when you convert the on PDF format, especially if it's text you can actually tell them, Hey, here's the information that we talked about and its PDF in our prior email, or we talked about it in the video, you are interested here is the checkout process, and you can have him check out that way with your affiliate link attached to as well right.
So that's the next step, just more of an information style, right? But not really mentioning the product and obviously the third is for them to take action; hey, did you hopefully you enjoy the video? Here are the bullet points or recap of what we just talked about. Hopefully you learned something new if you're interested in it, we're here to help, here's the last minute video and then here's to check out process, right? And then obviously after that, there is more of the information cost per pays, you know, and you want to give them more information than anything especially through email, this does become cumbersome and I agree, I've hated this in the beginning, right. But there's so many resources out there such as like Fiverr and Upwork where you can get ten emails done for less than probably a hundred dollars, right. And decent emails, right, and I just said...
Anna: [Inaudible41:49]
Ian: And I just said after ten days after ten days of auto respond, you got to send them information. And I found for me personally, after ten days, it's like where they are; they're kind of tired of hearing the product, so what's next right. So now from here, you kind of want to start segmenting it by clicks and or filtering by clicks and opened and this way you can see who people are in interaction who are interested and who are not. And if they're not, which one do you promote other offers and other offers obviously in the same vertical which can be a horizontal vertical, or it can go in the same niche in a vertical way. So something in like, for example, horizontal niche is more of like, let's say health is a horizontal, you can have weight loss, weight, loss, weight loss, skincare care, hair care, eating right, your right diet that's a horizontal, right? You want to go vertical, vertical going from like health is like skin care.
Anna: Financial, yeah.
Ian: Right, right. Well, it wouldn't be that it would be like so let's say for example, it's skincare right. If you go vertical right. So now it's like the daily moisturizers or more of like okay, now I need to whiten my teeth to be more prone to my new skin or like acnes, you know, something like that, which is not very, very similar right so, but then once you start segmenting users, which you want to survey them later on is the fact that is to start segmenting properly based on survey and you just send them a random server, like hey, we notice that you were not interested in the files we pushing in the past seven days from our sponsors.
We are trying to make sure that you are being beneficial. So what kind of information you're looking for? And just say, but like I put like the evergreen, just dating financial, you know, healthcare insurance, [inaudible43:51] gaming, whatever right. And then you just take that information, you just filter them out into send their actual segmented list right. And then we actually talked about this earlier, which is basically types of email to push out for affiliate offers and they can be the advertisers templates, a lot of advertisers actually in click bank, they have their own template to send out which you can definitely use. But the problem with that is that you don't know if these users are also being promoted by the advertiser because the advertiser might have [inaudible44:23] from them way before you did, but they might have seen this email before, right.
So you should probably edit it, right, the easiest way to do it is just use like word AI to like send email and do it that way, right. I mean, it's not that too complicated right but you also want to have decent copy of it. The other one is actual factual emails, which is probably just more of the information side; information learning, I call it where you're just like, you just want to tap them like, hey this is what you need to do, you know, real quick and then they'll do their own research.
And then hopefully they will click on a link, come back to it and be like, okay, this is what I will do. And obviously educating the user over a three day email span with third email is more of like hey, take action, where the first one in two emails of like, okay this is what you need to do for your skincare. Wash your face for two to three minutes. Next day is to moisturize in the morning and night. And then here are my full routine how to do within for the next seven days and that would be your call to action email, right.
Anna: That's awesome and I'm so glad you mentioned the skin offers because we have a lot of them and you are so right on the sequence that is so important. Do you mind if I ask you a few questions? I don't want to miss any here. Carlos is asking, do you collect leads for any niche? For example, you create a landing page for neutral product collect leads, and then send the swipes to do the sale.
Ian: Yeah so you should collect emails for any CPA that's hired in like $20 I think; anything below that, like dating, there's really no point I mean there is a point to collect dating leads, yes. but do you have a future funnel later on is what you really need to think about, right. So we're dating, even though they're like only three, $3 to, you know, $14, right; are you going to be like, Hey, you know what, I'm going to collect the email. I will send them to these offer, but then I'm going to make my own pickup ebook later on and then sell them that, right. So you really have to think about a future later, that kind of future later on. If you really want to do that, but you should always collect leads that are hired and a CPA of 20, $25 I think.
Anna: That's a really good point I agree on the CPA that's I completely agree. Coran is asking, what do you do when you finish with one product auto responder and users buy or not? Or you try to do some upsells or Optum users onto another flow?
Ian: Yeah correct, so when you have, so this is the difficult part of email is like, you don't know that Ian Fernando clicked on six emails, didn't take action right. You really don't know that, you really need to have really good tracking. And there, there is a way to do it properly with like any of the tracking platforms, right? It is just very difficult to take that data and segment it into email. What I tend to do is some email platforms, it'll be like move users that did not open emails over seven days to list two, right? You can do that in most email platforms or you can be like, you can set rules, be like, okay, if user did not click link in the last email, move them to this platform, right. And this way you actually know that they're not paying action on your offer and you want to send other offers, right?
Like if you just sign up for any click bank email list, you will notice that you are getting bombarded every day. They're emailing them every day, every new offer, but the first five days is about their offer, and then after that, if you don't take action, you notice your emails change to just offer, offer, offer, offer, offer, right? So you should always move around with different affiliate offers, but it there's a strategy to do. You definitely want to survey them first, so you can give them relevant information where they do take action, that's the most important part. Remember everything in the field marketing is all about filtering. You filter the data, you filter your leads, you filter your task sources, filter the widgets, right? So the more finite you can get the data, the better off and higher your conversions are, will be so.
Anna: Awesome, love it.
Ian: Cool so what I do with data later on, because you know, it can be a pain. So in the past I used to sell my data, right. Again, it comes to the question of, is the better team for me to make $10,000 a day or the better to make 10K a month? At that point in my career, I was like, you know what? I don't want to make 10 K a month, I'd rather contain my ads, but we started selling in data and you can sell the data in real time, you'll use a system like a ping tree or a lead wrench or something like that, where people actually bid like I was doing insurance leads or car rental leads. People were, were bidding from $7 to $40, right in real time.
But after an hour, after a day after one week, the lead will become shipped and they'll only spend probably 25 cents because that data is not relevant anymore and after the thing with leads, you want to make sure your emails and information data is relevant enough. After that, when your leads are not relevant, you move to the second part of your email, autoresponder just crank out more or crank out more emails to them, right? So the other part of the data, now that you have the data, what can you do with the data if you don't want to sell it, but you want to still monetize off it, sure. There's something called an industry that I call list jerking. It's the wonder thing that I really, really hate which happens in the MOLM space and make money online space is basically everybody jerks each other off for a good list.
They don't want to buy traffic, they'd rather swap list and make off each other, but it's such a horrible way to do it. But if you're an affiliate you're brand new, you can actually go to these pools and be like, Hey, I get fresh leads every day, you know what I mean? It will to just send out you know, 500 emails or guarantee X amount of clicks, it'll be a thousand dollars. And there's a lot of mini networks out there in the click bank space popular in the click bank space, popular in the war warrior forum space. It's popular in the JV zoo space, you know, those are the kind of marketers that I don't consider real marketers. Right. They're just swaps. Right. So that's one thing that you can definitely do, right? There's a huge, you know, email industry that will buy you data as well, or share and rush, share your data as well and that's something you want also look into.
Anna: That's awesome, Adam is asking can you chat about running leg gen for e-com offers? Do you hit your list with list goals or run directly to specific products?
Ian: Ecommerce affiliate offers or eCommerce and advertisers? E-Commerce, I'll do both like eCommerce affiliate, right. So since I've done both, right, since I was an advertiser, I had my own e-com I had my own Nutra and I am doing also as an affiliate. As an advertiser, there's a huge series to do it and whatever, but as an affiliate you do want to do your listical in your email, right? Nowadays people are, especially in this pandemic, I've noticed that listical are, very more popular in email, down on website, right. Because they everybody's on their phone, so they'll actually take more action through email than actually going to the website, right. But you also want, this is how I target; so this is a really, I don't know if I should share this actually.
Anna: You have to, [inaudible52:21].
Ian: So the way to do proper email listicals is to target. So some networks, they allow you to target wifi and 3g. So you just turn off wifi, right? So this way you guarantee them that they're always, they pick action on the listical you don't guarantee I don't, there's nothing, always a guarantee, but there's more action on a non wifi right. If you do wifi, then there's more action that they might take it and go to the computer, that's what I found right. So just by turning off wifi and just targeting mobile and 3g, like you know, that they'll take action just, or not take action, but they're more inclined to do things on their phone than looking on their phone. I'm like, oh that's cool. I clicked list to go, oh, I went to such and such domain. Let me go to that domain on, on my desktop and just article more; so there's that, there's that gap. There's that information that a lot of people do not think about. Right. So that's something that is very, very unique. That very rarely anybody that you think thinks about, man I'm giving too much, I'm giving too many secrets out today.
Anna: I know Andrew's saying it best sharing is caring, I agree Andrew and well, this is why we do it right. And that's why people that woke up early and turn in their life are getting all the juice and the good secrets, so thank you.
Ian: No problem, I guess and then the last part is like, the other way to collect data is obviously SMS push notifications. Like there's one signal, one, signal's an awesome platform to collect data, especially just starting off and then you want to merge off one signal later on, right. And push is such a popular topic source nowadays. There's so many topics that will actually buy your push notifications, right? So if you have random sites, landing pages that you just want to click, collect, push notifications, and you don't want to monetize it yourself, then let another affiliate network do it. Like I'll buy those pushes and advertise on them, right. And they actually categorize your pushes. So when you talk to your ad manager where you want to start collecting, push, they'll say, oh, you're a neutral space we'll make sure you're under neutral.
Oh, you're in financial, we'll make sure you're in financial. So there's no kind of disruptive portion with your leads to information they are receiving, right. But it does become spamming on their end, so there is an argument you can argue with yourself where like it better for someone else to monetize it, where you just want to sell the traffic to whatever, what do I want to do and control it later on. But again, that becomes another skill, right? Where you have to learn push notification advertising a bit on your side, right but emails is the majority part, but, and there's obviously desktop SMS or direct mail. I haven't done direct mail myself, I actually sold information to an agency to direct mail and we basically just broke even after agency fees and all that stuff so, yeah.
Anna: Awesome.
Ian: Yeah and then I guess the last part is you doing push the first three reminders in the first three days, did you watch the video text version of the VSL and then cart reminder, hey you forgot to finish your checkout process, right. Same thing with your emails, right or you do anything a longer version of your email copy and putting into a 40 character version on push notifications. And that's kind of basically it all right and then that's, that's it guys so, and you can start bombarding me with questions, you guys can find me on.
Anna: I'm going to, I'm so glad I was asking you as if we were going, because I don't want to be late for Joe, but I do want to leave this here for a second. That's the Ian's information you guys on the screen Avengers online. I'm not saying this because I like Ian, and he's my friend, but it's such a cool community, what he's doing with Avengers. So please check that out, I'm genuinely saying this because it's really cool and to me, any tools that are usually going to help our affiliates, I'm so excited to share. So yeah, it's a really cool website, I'll do one question just because you know, this is a good one. Andrew is asking if you have $500, what would you do to create your funnel?
Ian: Oh man so the strategy I would use, which would be the cheapest strategy would be to arbitrage clicks to Facebook and in that way I would probably buy pops or push, right. Create an optin lead and then generate a lookalike audience through optins and move the advertising to Facebook. This way you actually utilize $500 as much as possible by spending maybe a hundred dollars on push growing a mini list because the most important part after that is growing the lookalike audience on tagging and you're retargeting for Google ads and then either put a hundred dollars on Google or put the rest of the budget on Facebook via your local life audiences, right. But you need to at least get a hundred interactions or a hundred tags through your opt-in. So that is the only thing you kind of have to actually modify sport, but that is the best way to take a small budget and expand to a bigger revenue later in my opinion,
Anna: I love it so we have like dozens of comments thanking you, the presentation was great, you're awesome, valuable info. You're a rockstar what can I say? I know it's like, thank you. And you know what? This is telling me, we have to do this again, like we're not going to wait. We're not going to wait for the next conference, we're going to do this again soon because you know, it's so much good information and you know, affiliates love it so yeah.
Ian: I mean, I love giving information and it's fine; to me it's information is awesome. It's just all these groups, they teach you stuff, but they just don't give you nuggets, that's a problem, you know?
Anna: So yeah I'm with you, thank you so much. I'm going to jump in with Joe, you should definitely stick around for that, that's going to be a really good one also. Yeah, you guys just stay live on Facebook we we're going to make things easier for you, but Ian you're awesome, we love you and stay on for the next one.
Ian: No problem.
