Site Flipping, is it Still a Business Model that is Doable? Greg Elfrink Answers.

By Ian Fernando

Ian Fernando: What up guys Ian Fernanda here from and while I’ve tallying around I'm actually in Vietnam right now and I want to go ahead and introduce you to.

Greg Elfrink: Hey guys I'm Greg Elfrank I'm the marketing manager with Empire Flippers here in beautiful windy Saigon.

Ian Fernando: And we're by the pool so you might be a little early but I'm going to go ahead and pick that up through editing so we'll see how everything works. But I recently met to aim at down my circle and you can tell me about how I can you make the money through some websites and I have a ton of websites.

I have a lot of domains I've recently just closed down my nutria stuff and I basically gave him and his team members minutes to remember to preview a website to see what I can make a bit and it gave me this whole thing on how there's a lot of people making millions of dollars on just simple revenue sites.

Even a 5 page website through ..., so this whole video is about making money through website flipping and I've heard of basically probably the only domain or website flipping service that I heard of until I met Greg here or James. James, Greg sorry about that.

Greg Elfrink: Yes background me man the TOB are more or less is I used to be an oilfield roughneck back in Alaska I got sick of it wanted get into online business I started writing a lot of content for people as a way to kind of like get myself out of debt and all that kind of stuff.

I wanted and decided you know I'm like bill Boeing these affiliate sites and I'm going sell one of these sites I had heard about flippa I heard about Empire flippers before.

I thought this is a great like half and Empire Flippers sent out this email saying we're looking for a Content Marketing Pro threw my hat into the ring and two months later I left Alaska moved out to Vietnam.

Ian Fernando: Awesome so how old is Empire flippers because I personally haven’t heard of it.

Greg Elfrink: So we've been around since 2012 but we back then we were called Adcents flippers and we would so much smaller like no maybe 5,000 to $15,000 sites and those were all small ad cents in sites making 200, 500 bucks a month something along those lines one of those lines in the last two years they've grown pretty significantly.

We just hired nine new people we've been on E 5000 list two years in a row now going for the third year this time around yeah we've grown quite a bit.

Ian Fernando: So you went from like just Ad cents flipper to just selling like many Ad cents sites to now almost full range in size from I know from full range of site I know from tailgate sites to neutral sites to I know one more recently one you told me was crypto site.

Greg Elfrink: Yea we just sold our crypto site for 50X that was awesome good one for us.

Ian Fernando: Now for everyone out there I have my blog we’re going to go through pre- requisites like maybe branding what it takes to go and sit on the website.

Why you think of the beneficial for them to make a website and just flip its of somebody to make website is flip it every probably a lifespan of website before somebody flipped it in what a year.

Greg Elfrink: A lifespan is in like from the time of creation?

Ian Fernando: The creation to maybe sign to somebody else it does depend on revenue right.

Greg Elfrink: Right so one of the basic formulas of what your site is worth is looking at the 12-month average net so that 12-month average net profit of the site and then you have a multiple times that by so that multiple can be anywhere between 20 and 50 X. 50 X is obviously much on the high end both sites at say between 28 and 35 X are fairly reasonable especially 35.

Yeah so you can sell a site that you've built within a year but you might want to wait a little bit longer just because the first couple months the site probably isn't making that much money.

So if you sold it just out of year you're probably going to take a hit on that beginning of the 12 month average right. So 15 months to 18 months is usually a pretty solid bet.

Ian Fernando: That’s pretty cool and what do you think like that monthly revenue should be before someone should even start think about you guys or whomever.

Greg Elfrink: Well our minimum for affiliate sites ask me at least $500 net for a month so that goes for Adcents and affiliate sites only everything else we are minimum is $1,000 in that per month. So it's pretty easy in terms of barrier to entry to submit your site for sell of us meet personally.

I would probably wait so I'm more into five to five thousand to nine thousand dollar month range or more.

Because as your net profit goes up it's very common for the multiple to also go up with that just because it's a bigger business it's more stable typically it's just more attractive as a cash flow asset.

Ian Fernando: Now for a person like me I'm buying media to my affiliate site right and I'm handing off to you for you to find a buyer well I say that buyer doesn't know online media and media buying I mean wouldn’t he be scared to take over a site that he has no, or not sure how it actually work and makes revenue.

Greg Elfrink: So in this situation we call that buyer like a newbie norm we have different buyer personality types like customer avatars basically right.

If a person is looking at that kind of business that they don't know that much about it we would probably steer like we could still sell your business but we probably steer that buyer away to something that's more SEO driven SEO is a lot more newbie friendly in the sense that you don't have day to day campaigns all that stuff but if want to sell a site that is primarily based on paid traffic say like an e-commerce store.

Most of them are all the traffic. You know there's nothing wrong with that buyers love those kind of stores.

What I would say is you should SOP your process on media buying very, very well create that SOP to where someone could follow these eighty percent as well as you.

I know you are you're pretty advanced with new media buying we were talking about this the other day something that people like you fall into that is issues over perfection right.

Like you guys start date tracking like day parting like 3:13 PM on Android on Tuesday is the day to scale it like don't have to be that good to sell these assets.

Most of the assets that use paid traffic don't do any of that crazy stuff the more way super advance stuff so it's okay to dumb down your skill a little bit to make it approachable to a buyer and you can still make fantastic money by doing that.

In fact if I have less stress less of the day trading going on.

Ian Fernando: Now to take that form or an extent would let's say he buys my site and you know I say it's making 5k a month been pretty consistent the past 8 months.

He takes over by month to move down by to $2,000 and it's only making a three, five, nine so they're something that you can do to improve it or does he just find a new site or what does or did the buyer feel bad or its lunch money back like there's so many things.

Greg Elfrink: The buyer definitely probably feel bad if that happen it’s a shitty thing that can happen and it does happen like a you know you can buy a website we have a guy who Papa drops it in site for 25K about two and a half years ago and not just 30K a month you know.

So it does more in one month than what you bought it now we've had people on the flip side I have bought something and I just went to complete shit doesn’t make anything at all and you know that sucks when that happens.

Ian Fernando: Is that the fault of the buyer.

Greg Elfrink: It could be a lot of different factors like they could be you know one the buyer didn't run across like we had a buyer bought a pretty big business and he just really is bad at e-commerce he's great when it comes to content sites and he just ran this business into the ground.

It’s totally his fault so that sucked as far as like what that buyer can do they buy a business that starts going down is I'd reach out to the seller hopefully the buyer and the seller came to some kind of agreement where the seller will provide a bit of support like coaching or whatever.

It's not uncommon for someone to buy a business and see a little bit of a drop yes they're not the native owner of business they don't know it as well.

They might still be learning and so that's support period which is usually between 30 to 60 days it could be really valuable for that buyer but yeah there's not a lot you can do if you buy a business especially depending on your agreement.

So what I mean by that is like burn out structures if you have a bigger business that's in the five hundred to five hundred thousand plus range purchase price. You might have a earn out and that earn out might be tied to certain performance goal.

It's like you know like it might be tied to revenue it might be tied to net profit so that will all come into play but if it's just a clean be aware the buyer bought the business completely after a verification process where he verifies yes I am earning this money I am seeing this traffic and he gives it okay for us to send the money off to the seller.

Then it's really it's you know it’s the buyers maybe hopefully the seller would still like to support the buyer within reason. Just you know we want it to be a win, win, win for every one right but that doesn't always happen.

Ian Fernando: So those Empire flippers pick and choose cherry-pick like okay yes I would be good this guy site you know this SEO person it would be good with other someone content guy get like point system.

Greg Elfrink: So yeah we don't do any kind of off-market deals. So some brokers still have special lists like oh you bought like several hundreds of thousands dollars for me I'm going to send the best deals of you we don't do that but what we do do is this criteria matching you're talking about.

So we'll look at a buyer say for the earlier example a guy who's totally new to pay traffic totally new to online business maybe he comes looking at your site and I want this one we might only a mad you might not have the skills to run this one you could buy it we can't stop you from buying it.

But it is on our professional interest that this is a win for you as well this site over here might be a better fit for your current skill sets you know or something along those lines we do try to do that.

Ian Fernando: Okay that's awesome I mean that's what I guess you don't want to give somebody a site and he just runs it into the ground.

Greg Elfrink: This volume tracker thing is driving me nuts just shut up and view.

Ian Fernando: I guess for people I got two part now for people that have sites and they are thinking of letting it go what is the best ........ for them do they focus on like brand specific content or should they just try to increase the Adsense increase revenue to this site like affiliate offers and all that stuff what do you think?

Greg Elfrink: There's a lot so you can do to prepare yeah so some of the things you want to suggest that these are talking bugs you look at those SOPs I talked about you look at those SOPs they're really annoying too write yeah they're super useful it's like the buyers manual guide into your business right this good way to look at it.

So that's very important I won't necessarily increase the value but it increases the attractiveness of the business. It's like the buyer is looking to buy an investment not a job right.

Ian Fernando: Recording that investment.

Greg Elfrink: With this manual you can give them. As far as other stuff goes for paid traffic people especially I think that they can run into this trap of where they just have one landing page and that's it and that's their entire site a bunch no we've sold those but you're not going to get as big of a value for those one page Lander kind of sites and they're very difficult to sell.

So instead I wouldn't look at building a brand around it so they've never dropshipping the store there's nothing stopping you from building a brand you can hire a professional writer to write you know a few pieces of content it doesn't cost that much and you could still have these super lucrative funnels that you're running attached to that brand and that makes this is much more attractive.

It makes it look and it makes it feel more real and add more potential to the buyer as well.

Ian Fernando: Now like I guess with branding does it would like the email leads and the Facebook groups and pages be considered as part of the sales well it just specifically goal mainly.

Greg Elfrink: Oh yeah so usually people will hand over their email lists as well and in each social account stay out and go into it what we see which is shocks surprises me a lot is that these people will have these email lists and they just don't really which is amazing to me. Because like you know there's so much value in the email list.

Ian Fernando: I agree I mean I'm just starting to reinvigorate my email list and I haven’t mailed a bunch of people as well.

Greg Elfrink: It’s kind of like the equivalent of you know a doctor tell me you like you should eat more broccoli. I like in the internet market money is in list everyone collect the list they don't do anything with it.

Ian Fernando: Technically from what my understanding email marketing is there's a whole new business it's something you have to learn inboxing you know.

So it's something I didn't really get into but now get back just because it's an asset and just because it is an asset you think it brings the value of the site. I mean the value you're the buyer for that site and higher I say it’s making a thousand dollars but not making email list.

Greg Elfrink: So if email doesn't make any money it's not going to add any value to the business right this is based off of the net profit.

Now if your email list is adding value to it with you know net profit is monetize its branded it's bringing people to high-quality content on the site then sure the email list is going to pump up the valley a little bit because it actually is bringing value right.

If you have an email list of 500,000 people you haven’t emailed in 2 years is it valuable maybe it might move the needle a little bit on your valuation but probably not a whole lot.

Ian Fernando: And I guess now the final question is which somebody can I get back to my first, first question is that okay I want to start a site it’s taking me 18 months I'm going to build this brand around it but I'm struggling to make it revenue wise.

So there's a lot of websites out there that purely content but they just don't know how to monetize site properly yeah but they can coach or they want to sell the site. They just want to like go over it and be like hey it’s probably going to make $500,000 if we’re pulling it off will you take something like that.

Greg Elfrink: We wouldn't personally just because it has to meet our minimum net revenue a monthly net revenue to the go through our vetting process.

So we only sell sites and digital assets are already making money but there are other places out there you could sell that on flipper I believe flippa does sign non-revenue producing domains your domain is good for an SEO value you could possibly sell it there too.

There are people who search for sites like that specifically that good like backlink profiles and they'll make an offer to that to the owner often the owner is an internet marketer anything. So they don't really know what they’re selling.

Ian Fernando: They just want the value.

Greg Elfrink: So they'll buy up that content and redirected to the main authority site things like that.

Ian Fernando: Okay well guys hopefully that was good for everybody I want to thank Empire flippers for being out here.

Hopefully the wind wasn’t that bad I'll be edited that much and then if you have any question go ahead and comment them below and hopefully I’ll get him back to you guys right so thank you guys for watching and stay tuned.

Greg Elfrink: See you guys you.

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Ian Fernando
Involved in the internet space since 2002 and have been through the ups and downs of this online industry. I am a traveling digital nomad, media buyer, online strategist, and many more online titles.

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