How to be an Aspiring Internet Marketer while Traveling the World

By Ian Fernando

Rohail Rizvi: welcome to the Nomadic Millionaire Podcast, where we dive deep into the world of digital nomads, online entrepreneurs, and location-independent living. I'm your host, bro Rizvi, and today we have an exciting guest joining us. Ian Fernando, a successful internet marketer and entrepreneur. Known for his insightful strategies and innovative approaches.

We'll be discussing his journey in the world of internet marketing, his tips for aspiring entrepreneurs and his experiences as a digital nomad. So let's get started. Welcome to the show, Ian. 

Ian Fernando: Hey, thanks for having me. I appreciate it, man. It's been a long time since we last talked. 

Rohail Rizvi: It has, it has, man. I'm glad we were able to connect.

It's been a minute for sure. So yeah, so it's great having you on the show. Appreciate you coming on. And to start things off, can you share a bit about your background and how you got into internet marketing? 

Ian Fernando: Yeah, sure. I've been online roughly about 15 plus years, right? I started mainly on eBay selling, reselling stuff online.

Then eventually got into affiliate marketing. And then most of my career, about 90% of my career is in media buy and affiliate marketing. Pretty much got started by accident. Didn't really want to be an entrepreneur or affiliate marketer, or whatever you call this scenario, right? In my life I basically just wanted to get rid of three jobs.

Actually I just wanna get rid of two out of three jobs. That was kind of my goal. And then eventually I was like, well, if I was able to get rid of two, can I get rid of the last one? Mm-hmm. And I probably had like three months of savings. And I took the risk of like, okay, let me just go hard into affiliate marketing and see if I can at least, you know, make my monthly salary.

And then I think after, within a month and a half, I did like my whole year's salary. In that two months time. And then eventually I was like, all right, I think this is real, this can do it. And then I think affiliate marketing was for me and ever since, oh, that was it, you know? 

Rohail Rizvi: Wow. A month and a half.

That's pretty good to replace an entire salary and let alone you went from three jobs to where you're at now, which is pretty, pretty impressive. Yep. That's pretty awesome, man. And so would you say like, As someone who's achi achieved a lot of success in this field, what, what would you say is the most important skill or mindset that has contributed to your 

Ian Fernando: success?

Oh man. I think I think this changes over time just because I guess it's based on the framing of the question. I think at that point in my career or that time when I was really just a drop outta college, my parents kicked me out. I think for me it was just survival, right? And trying to just make as much money as I can just be to be able to eat the next day, right?

Mm-hmm. So for me, at that time, it was more like, oh, I have to make money, or I have to do this, I have to do that, right? So at that point in my life was more of the survivals mentality where I needed to do this, I needed to do that. What the shortcut to do this, right? Mm-hmm. Even like back in the day, like when I got my apartment, I couldn't afford like internet, right?

So what I did was like, okay, let me save up money by a wifi repeater. Right? See if I can find any, anybody that has an open wifi network and repeated that signal into my apartment. Right? That's crazy. So that's how I got the, the internet in my, in my apartment. Right. So I think back in the days more like, where are the shortcuts?

What can I do right now? I think that mindset of like. My back was against the wall. I had nothing to do. I had nothing to lose for. Like, I think that mindset, just like pushing and surviving, was that mentality back then. Now it's definitely more of like my happiness mindset, like, okay, am I happy doing this?

Am I happy doing that? Am I satisfied? If I am satisfied, that means I'm not doing fairly good. It all really depends, right? But if you're starting out and if you are struggling, then I think survival mentality is super, super important because it just creates this creativity in your head. And I think eventually that turned to a benefactor for me because creativity and marketing is very, very important.

Rohail Rizvi: Totally. Yeah, I definitely get that. I think especially as an entrepreneur, I think you have that extra fire under you when you have to make it work or else like you'll be out on the street or something. Like I think that extra little bit of motivation is actually, when you look back in hindsight, it was actually what got you to success versus what if you have like an easy fallback, like a job you could always go back to.

It's a lot less pressure and a, and in a way it's a less. Less chances of succeeding unless you're like super disciplined and, and, you know, put in that work. So in ways, in some ways it is an advantage.

Ian Fernando: Yeah, I mean, it all really, really depends. I think back in the day, it's just, it was easy to make money, but also difficult as minority and being first generation too. So a lot of pressure from family and parent versus. Now there's like two generations now I think that are living a pretty good American style dream.

There's no pressure, there's no bad feedback. There's, I mean, there's a lot of stuff happening that can be very, very beneficial for entrepreneurs right now. I mean, even back in the day, I didn't even wanna be an entrepreneur. I just needed to like get rid of my job, right. Oh, that's 

Rohail Rizvi: crazy. No, I get that. And I think yeah, and being an entrepreneur as a minority is, is a little bit different as well.

It's, it presents different challenges sometimes and you know, a different set of motivation sometimes too, in terms of like, I. You have an extra reason to, to move your place in society sometimes, but now let's talk about that's great advice by the way. I would really like to talk to you about your experiences as digital nomad because you've been traveling and living around the world for a long time now.

Probably over 10 years. So how did you make the decision to live and work remotely and how has this lifestyle impacted your 

Ian Fernando: career? Yeah. So I've been always wanting to travel. I guess traveling had been part of my blood since I was a young kid. 'cause my parents would always drive to the next state over, right?

Mm-hmm. So I guess that adventure it part of my brother and my sister and me. I guess my first, my first country I went to is Panama. And then my first real overseas, I wanna say is Morocco. And in the past eight years, I've been traveling consistently from country to country. So I think my last eight years have been truly a digital about, and my decision to do that is just more so like, I think when you reach a point of money, you're always asking what's next?

Right? And you're always like, oh, what is, what is next for me? How do other people see their life? And you want a different perspective, right? So America, Eastern Europe, they all have certain perspective. But then you go to Thailand, you go to Columbia, you go to Brazil, they have different perspective of life, food, culture, and that's very, very interesting to me.

And what I've learned is taking some of these experiences and it's thinking like, oh, why isn't it here in America? Why doesn't it apply in Eastern Europe? Why is it so difficult in America? Why is it accepted here? Right? So you see a lot of these perspective, which makes me, which can make open your mind a lot more.

It also helps a lot with business as well too. Creativity part too, again, right. But getting into it, I think it would just be part of my blood. Again, my parents traveled from state to state and I was just super, super careers. Oh. And I remember my dad always, always telling me tra traveling stories, like he was showing pictures from Egypt.

So that curiosity was always there for me. I think. 

Rohail Rizvi: Nice. That's awesome man. It's really good to get that inspiration at at a young age. I think it can really shape your, the way you see the world, the way you pursue your career. So that's, that's pretty awesome. And so like for our listeners who are maybe considering the digital nomad lifestyle or even perhaps being more stationary, expat, like maybe you are now well, I wouldn't call you stationary, but you still traveling within where you are.

But what tips would you give them to, to help 

Ian Fernando: them succeed to like get into digital med? 

Rohail Rizvi: Just to, yeah, just to succeed as a, a digital nomad 

Ian Fernando: entrepreneur specifically. Okay. I think one thing is like, if you're curious, right, at Nomad, I think it's important to maybe start off in a country where it's probably low, low expenses.

Like I know I meet a lot of entrepreneurs or entrepreneurs in Columbia, a lot more freelancers in Columbia Valley. Thailand, Philippines for sure. And to succeed, I think it's just spend the time to focus, like sit down, take the next three months, really, really dive in. Yeah. And then try to use your spare time to explore.

But I think that would be the best scenario. But the other scenario, which speaking like a travel event of the Columbia like a couple months ago, is to always have an open mind. Never. If you're traveling, I would never YouTube the bad things. I would always YouTube the good things of the country.

Right? Because then what happens is you set these expectations in your head, like, oh, I'm about to get drugged. And then you're always scared, right? And sure, when you only Google or YouTube, like the good things you look forward to, the good things, right? But what you do for the bad things, you're like, you're looking forward to it, you're expecting it, and eventually you're gonna get drugged.

Rohail Rizvi: It's just how it works. You know? Be careful what you consume. Yeah, no, honestly, like I've been to all those places like Columbia, like and, and you know, I had no fear going through those places years ago. But now there's like so much content. A lot of it's like fear content on YouTube. And even as someone who's traveled, you get a little bit.

Concerned thinking, Hey, it is just, it's just all out people getting drugged all the time. So it doesn't mean you shouldn't, you know, be aware of your surroundings and be a smart traveler, but, you know, don't let it keep you from exploring and seeing other parts of the world. 

Ian Fernando: Agreed. Agreed. I think it's important to like have, it's, it's good to be informed for sure.

I wouldn't be consumed about it. Like I have a friend that travels and all he does is look for the badges. So he's scared. But then your energy that you give off while you're walking, like, dude, you like to become a target where you're like seeing these things, right. It's not 

Rohail Rizvi: good. Right. It definitely makes a difference.

Yeah. Would you say would you tell aspiring digital nomad entrepreneurs to. Travel or a lot, or would you say in hindsight it would've been better not to travel as much and stay in one place for 

Ian Fernando: business? Okay, so I've done this in my first two years, full-time. I spent probably two weeks to 30 days in each country and moved around, and then eventually after two years or maybe a year and a half, my goal was to stay the extension of the visa, whether it be 30 days.

Three months or six months, then explore. Right. And the reason for this is because it allows, the first part is exploration, curiosity, which is good. The next part of Digital Nomadness, I think of like being involved with the people, being involved with culture. Like if you're only there for a week, two weeks, like you're, you're rushing to see the toury spot, find food.

You don't get to really talk to the people, get involved in language, get involved in community. I. So I think after like three months, or if you stayed in touch of the country the Visas country, then you get to be involved. Like you slow down that tourism part of yourself. You actually want to go to local foods.

You meet local pavilions or local ties, right? You actually start to learn the language a little bit, so you start to slowly engulf yourself in the country, which I enjoy more, right? Just because people make the difference when you travel. I think 

Rohail Rizvi: that's true, man. That's true. Like you're actually getting to then experience the culture rather than just like doing fast tourism through all these places.

Right. So no, I totally, I totally agree with 

Ian Fernando: you on that. Yeah. I mean, super important to be more engulfed than mm-hmm. Having, because it creates a different whole level of experience, like when you go to a tour spot. Sure. That's a self-experience. When you go with like a group of people and you know, to like maybe buffet you, local Brazilians or people, you have a, a group experience.

Right. Which is very, very different than a self experience. Right. It's very not, yeah. You 

Rohail Rizvi: wouldn't get that otherwise For sure. And all these different things that you mentioned, like you're a big fan of like good food, so you get to actually experience like a, maybe a local will tell you about a restaurant that you wouldn't have found otherwise or you wouldn't find on, let's say like some tour, tour guide or Google.

So things 

Ian Fernando: like that. Yeah, exactly. So like I think just walking around self exploring is super important and then you see something that you might go ahead and get it, you know, I think food helps you understand the country a lot and the culture for sure. Definitely, definitely. 

Rohail Rizvi: Those are, those are really good tips.

Now let's talk about some of the, maybe challenges you face as an internet marketer and a digital nomad. Can you share an example of a challenge you might have encountered in how you overcame 

Ian Fernando: it? Let's see. Entrepreneurship and digital nomadness. I can't really, I can't really see a challenge really.

Mm-hmm. Maybe access to certain items, but most of my stuff are online. Oh, like here for, here's a good one. So I have my other laptop actually being serviced right now, and it's very expensive to get your laptop or electronic service here in Brazil. Like you're so MacBook Pro, like $1,200, right?

Mm-hmm. Here in Brazil is $4,000, right? So that is super expensive. In Columbia had my MacBook Pro Service for like 50 bucks here. I'm gonna pick that up later. It's being searched for $600 for the same machine. Right. That's insane. So the difference of pricing for electronics, I think it's challenging because now I have to think about, oh, when will I be back in the States?

Can I get somebody to ship it for me? Right. So this, the logistic part of getting a laptop from the US for. Even the max of 1500, it's still far cheaper to pay $4,000 here. Right? Yeah, for sure. But it probably becomes time, right? Where's my time wasted? Where's my time valuable? Is it worth the $600 today?

Because I might not be in this case for six months. Mm-hmm. Right. This becomes a a, an argument of like convenience versus necessity. Right. Them saving you. Yeah. That's definitely one challenge for sure. That's 

Rohail Rizvi: wild. I can Yeah, totally get that electronics overseas. It's a whole different story. 

Ian Fernando: Sure. Yeah.

I don't know why here in Brazil, the import pres are, taxation on electronic is super, super hot and even branded like name brand items like Adidas or, you know, Supreme is super expensive here. That's 

Rohail Rizvi: crazy. Yeah. Sometimes, you know, you miss the good things at home, like Amazon, two day delivery, stuff like that.

Like Yeah, I could imagine. Well, they have Amazon here in Brazil, 


Ian Fernando: it's not bad. Oh, weird. Okay. Nice. Oh yeah. But they don't have a lot of the products. Yeah. I mean, you can get a product. They just, they just ship internationally. I see. Which is I mean, which takes two weeks instead of two days. Two weeks.

But I use a local, local, local version here, which takes about same day or next day, 

Rohail Rizvi: so. Okay. It's not bad. Yeah. Now what about, say, like a challenge like, While you're traveling a lot. What about managing your time effectively, like as a challenge? Like was that ever a challenge or what did you do about that?

Routines, maybe, or, yeah, 

Ian Fernando: so I guess in the beginning, so now it's not really a challenge just because since I'm actually trying to live and base myself now before, I guess when I was doing the first two years where I'm trying to explore and, and do this and do that. Mm-hmm. I guess my first thing to say was like, okay, what do I want to do?

Where's my focus gonna be at? Are they gonna be at work in the morning, gonna explore later? Right? So it really all depends. I really didn't have that much of a challenge with times because I'm a very, I'm a fairly routine person, right? So like when I wake up, I'm usually doing stretch yoga before I go to the gym.

Then I have my breakfast. And then I don't even open my laptop till actually, you know, I do like my learning language. So within two and a half hours I don't even open up my laptop when I wake up. Right. And then I have like a set time of working every two hours when they're taking a 15 minute, 30 minute break.

Right. I think for a lot of people, I know a lot of travelers they want to explore and then work, but the problem is they just give a there's no planning. Right. Whereas I think. In the beginning you should start a little bit planning like, oh, I will do all this church stuff in the first week, so now have my next two, my next week and a half, or whatever, free time to actually work focus and all that.

Right. Yeah. But I think time also is, is very painful on your side of the country, bro. Where we're in Thailand, especially if you have clients or maybe you have affiliate managers in the East Coast time, I think that becomes an issue. I remember working in the Philippines I would have to wake up early so I can get LA time and stay up late so I can get East Coast time.

And then I had the whole middle of the day where I can do whatever I want. But the, that time, definitely a little bit different in beginning for sure. Yeah, 

Rohail Rizvi: it's definitely a little tough. You gotta take advantage of like early morning, late night and then kind of just be a completely different routine than your normal, you know.

Nine to nine to seven whatever schedule in the East Coast. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. But, but it, it's one of the things with travel, like you, you kind of take that as a, as is and you still get to do both, explore different countries and still get your work done. 

Ian Fernando: Yep. Agree. Agree. I mean, that's the beauty of working in a line.

You just work when you need to. If you don't work, if you don't make any money, if you work, hopefully you make money. Right, 

Rohail Rizvi: exactly. Hopefully, hopefully. Yeah. Yeah, man. So. Let's see, ti time management, like we talked a little bit about that. Do you have any advice for, for people that are trying to become successful 

Ian Fernando: internet marketers?

Well, I mean, it's very broad question. So I mean, it really all depends. Like, I think routine, very important. I'm a very routine guy. I think goal orientation is very important. Micro goals versus macro goals are super important. I think a lot of entrepreneurs, they look at the end goal and they wanna reach that end goal, but I try to tell them like, Hey, you should do the micro goal first.

Like, sell the website, right? Get your domain build, go the website, get your social going first, right? Those micro goals, I think are super important because mentally you're actually accomplishing something. Hmm. When you're doing the macros every day, you're not accomplishment. You're not winning every day.

So that kills your dopamine speed. Right? So it's very not, it's never good to do a macro strategy. I always do micro strategies. Sure you have a end goal, but I think you need to do it in a micro step way though. You can, you feed yourself both meal all the time. Right. There's obviously ways to do it with product choosing what kind of entrepreneur you wanna be.

You wanna do Amazon. I've done Amazon, I've done print on demand info marketing. I mean, there's a lot, a lot, a lot. Good. So many different 

Rohail Rizvi: ways. A lot of different ways to make money online for sure. That's really good, man. There's micro, micro goals kind of lets you get that momentum rather than feeling down for not reaching some big goal.

On the daily. So and with that, let's kind of get maybe a little bit more into specifics. 'cause I know, you know, you're still very much involved in this space and you have a lot of experience. Can you share one of your most successful internet marketing campaigns and the key factors that contributed to its success?

Ian Fernando: And yeah, I think the most popular story I keep telling everybody is when I was in YouTube space where we had to, I didn't even know this. I don't know if you noticed this, like I didn't even know that Amex had a, a limit a car limit, right? Oh, okay. Amex has like a hundred K car limit, and when I got my first amex, I thought it was unlimited.

Right. So when we were, when we were buying media we were spending roughly a hundred k a day. Mm-hmm. Meaning we had to pre, meaning we had to always pay a hundred K the next day to Amex. Right. And then, which means we're also spending a hundred k a day on Aspen. So this means we're paying, I'm, we're, I'm paying AMX 200 K every day, plus spending a hundred K every day just because I need to spend a hundred K and make sure I'm paying the debt amount from yesterday a hundred K.

Right, right. So literally every day I'm throwing out 300 K every day. Right. That's crazy. And the new days was very, Fun, fast. I think that campaign lasted and I want to, I wanna say like five, four years, right? Mm-hmm. And it was it was entertaining for sure. And that was all through Google.

We were targeting, we were. So this strategy doesn't work anymore, but so Dr. Oz obviously is a celebrity, right? One of my business partners we, you could not use Dr. Oz in a search term right. To trigger, but this where the creativity comes in, right? We put in this doctor, you X amount of ounces, right?

In, in for to lose weight, right? Yeah. So we had the word doctor and o z in the ad, right? Which triggered the doctor. So this allowed us to be number one and number two, number three, number four, and number five. So instead of using Dr. Oz's name, we just simplify saying a doctor uses X amount of ounces to lose weight.

Mm-hmm. That triggered the search term, Dr. Oz. Right. So it this, it actually very, very well, it doesn't work now, but it is a very good way to think of like, how do I get Dr. Oz's name in my. Search term and result in my paid ads. I, that's pretty wild, 

Rohail Rizvi: man. The creativity goes a long way in affiliate marketing, though.

You get that 

Ian Fernando: edge. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Like the thing about affiliate marketing is that, what I love about it is that the affiliate marketers are like the best marketers. And the reason why is because we think, sure. Google says you cannot say celebrity named Dr. Oz. Our thinking is like, okay, how do I say Dr.

Oz in the ad without triggering Google's you know, restriction policies. Right? Right. What does, what does OG mean? Ounces. So ounce ounces, that's genius. It worked, right? This is where, why affiliate marketers are like the best. It's just we look at terms of surveys, we'll say. Mm-hmm. Oh, you cannot have, like TikTok, here's a good, a good example.

Yeah. TikTok does not allow debt campaigns, right? Mm-hmm. So I looked at term surveys or private policies and all that, like, okay, what, how, I wonder how many times debt has to be on a landing page for it to trigger tos or to trigger flagging my campaign. I'm like, I lemme just see, count all the debt words in my landing page right now.

Remove one by one before it gets planned. Eventually it came to a point where I can have the word debt on my page without triggering. Right? So that's another path. Right. But this is the problem. This is why affiliates think like, we'll listen to you what you say, Google, Facebook. We're gonna just do it just to poke you enough.

Right? Just to, 

Rohail Rizvi: you gotta get under that threshold, like run it under. Right. And so you're able to Yeah, exactly. It's a. You're right. I think we are the best marketers because we're forced to be creative and work around sometimes rules and think of just new ways to do things. So yeah, direct response.

Affiliate marketers, like, it's so different than the marketing you see in the branding world, which isn't really trying to achieve a goal of trying to. Like right there, right. Then get someone to take an action. 

Ian Fernando: I consult some companies agency, and when I hear these media buyers talk, I'm like, dude, you're, you're, you're a policy follower.

You're, ooh, you have your Google certificate, a words, 

Rohail Rizvi: or whatever you wanna fucking call it. Right? Right. 

Ian Fernando: You don't know nothing about media buying. 

Rohail Rizvi: Nah. It's just, it's just a whole nother world. And then when they're exposed to it, they're just like so shocked. Yeah. I 

Ian Fernando: mean, Media buyers are talented, like from the agency side, but they only know how to follow blueprint.

They don't know how to think outside of that. Like, why am I campaign converting? But, oh if you wanna do an ad, like, oh, but Facebook doesn't allow these type of ads, dude, just tweak it a little bit. Try it. Like, that's the problem with that. Buy side agency. Right. The agency taught me the buyers, I mean.

Rohail Rizvi: Exactly. Yeah. And they're forced to like probably follow a bunch of rules by brands and, you know, so they're just not used to pushing, pushing the envelope as much probably. No, no. I 

Ian Fernando: mean, they're, if they, they which look at policies and. Rules and like, okay, I can't do that. Right. 

Rohail Rizvi: Yeah. I mean, yeah, you remember all the crazy ads from back in the day.

One simple, one simple trick, all the crazy banners we've seen. So it's going way back. But how do you how has the world of affiliate marketing evolved since you started, and where do you, where do you see it going in the future? Like how, how do you see it in Yeah. 2023 and beyond. 

Ian Fernando: Man. It, I mean, as you know, the industry changes so much.

Like right now, I, I recently got into paper call last year. Mm-hmm. So in affiliate marketing it would be C P A C P L C ps. Right. I'm very big in lead gen, right? 

Rohail Rizvi: Yeah. But 

Ian Fernando: as time evolves, I think marketing evolved too. Like companies, they want leads, but they don't want pay for bad leads. So they're always quantifying what is a good lead, right?

So lead gen has not deteriorated, but it's becoming more Strict or given a lower payout because the value of that leads, right? So for example, like Facebook lead gen forms, like they're really bad quality, right? Yeah. Like nobody liked those Facebook lead gen forms. They're like super, super bad, right?

Mm-hmm. Because they're auto filled, right? And sometimes the person that signed up on Facebook is an old email, old phone number, okay? So, Deli pretty bad versus maybe a true opt form on an actual website. Deli is much better than Facebook lead form, but the quality of maybe contact ratio, calling, texting, all that marketing that's involved in the first seven days for the advertiser is, becomes worthless because there's no contact rate.

Right. If don't get, if they don't get a contact rate of at least like 3%, 5% right, then it's, it's very badly and that's why I like payoff. I've been being lower for, for a lot of, wow. I think that's why I like paper call nowadays is again, picked up much more rapidly because you can actually pre-qualify the user right?

And there without trying to market to them through ss m s email, follow phone calls, right? One leader seven days. So right there you, you're gonna be like, oh, you're a good leader of Valley. Boom. Exactly. I think, and you know, over time, oh my bad. Go ahead. Oh no, I was 

Rohail Rizvi: gonna say, and you know, they're serious 'cause they're actually getting on the phone making that, that call.

Right? Yeah, 

Ian Fernando: exactly. I think eventually advertising are gonna get smarter. AI is gonna be super involved. I mean, marketing for AI is gonna change a lot for sure. I think they're gonna speed up the marketing 200, 500, a thousand folds for sure in the next year. You 

Rohail Rizvi: know what I mean? Wow. So, wow.

That's crazy. Yeah. I was gonna ask you, how do you see like AI coming into play with affiliate markers or like, how do you see that being implemented? Oh, man. I mean, 

Ian Fernando: I use it right now, so I use like chatt PT to discover angles, gimme personas. Write copy. I use Mid Journey to create ads. And then, I mean, like mid Journey ads are like, the CTR are like, so far I've been getting like 11% C T R, which is like, okay, 

Rohail Rizvi: unheard of.

That's really good. Yeah. Yeah. 

Ian Fernando: So been down my P P V P C. C P C C. PV is a lot, but then the, the problem is now that the, the page conversion part is a little lower. Just because it's a higher c t r, that really beautiful image that mid journey creates. But then the landing page creates a, another issue.

But hopefully there'll be another AI tool that'll actually make a nice landing page. But simplicity is, is what, what rules and marketing anyway. Right? Right. But outside of that, what call centers, I think there's gonna be automated speech to text or text to speech style. Wow. I mean, it's gonna be responsive people on, on, on calls before it even gets transferred to a real live agent.

So call centers, I think the human part will be needed on the verification and validation, but under pre-validation, pre landing side, seeing if they qualify, I think it's all gonna be automated. Like they're like, you can literally have a call center on your phone and just spin up a thousand agents. I think that's gonna happen.

Rohail Rizvi: Right? That is crazy. Yeah. I mean, we talk about like other jobs being replaced, like. You know, bank tellers, cashiers, stuff like that. Like with ai, even maybe doctors can, because AI can make better, better analysis than than doctors in some, in some, in a lot of cases. Now how do you see that affecting affiliates?

Does, will, will advertisers just use AI to go out there, run ads optimized landing pages Do, will they? Where will the need of an affiliate come in or, or remain? 

Ian Fernando: So this is, this is a very talkable topic. Topic for sure. I definitely think Achilles are still gonna be needed just because of the creativity side, right?

Sure somebody can launch a campaign but there's structured that can be needed, like. AI can probably learn that after you've given it feedback. Like you probably run a campaign structure very differently than I run a campaign structure, right? Mm-hmm. Probably manual bidding versus auto bidding.

I mean, I do a lot of broad, right? A lot of people probably do interest targeting, right? Yeah. So the styles are gonna be very, very different for sure. I don't think there's can be a fix. And ai, but it'll be supplemented with ai. Meaning that your copy, your pages, your ad, c t r, I mean your ad creators are gonna be purely, purely automated.

But the thought process will be, I think, still needed for the affiliate marketer. 'cause even now, I think my stats, when I put in the chat tell me, Hey, which ad is is, is better over X amount of time. So even that analyzing part is being taken away from the marketer. Right. That's which I actually enjoy.

Right. But as long as you're educating ai, I think the really marketer and every marketer will still be needed. Right. Just because the, the creativity part that's important, right? 

Rohail Rizvi: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think we're still at that point where like, It's like being able to give it the right prompts is, is a skill in itself.

And so being able to do that better can make you, your marketing ultimately better If you're, if you're, like you said, structuring your campaigns in a certain way or coming up with creative ideas for, to input into ai. Yeah, that's, that's still at this point definitely still Aval valuable skill for sure.

Agreed. Now has there So I guess what, are there any tools or resources or platforms you recommend aspiring affiliate marketers or digital nomads to help them in their journey? 

Ian Fernando: Man, I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of forums for sure. I mean, I recommend like s t m Appli. There are definitely the good forms starting in affiliate marketing.

Mm-hmm. I mean, but I think you can just learn this all through YouTube nowadays. Like there's so much stuff on YouTube. Right. For sure. The only thing that YouTube doesn't have is actual personal experience, right? Like, If you search how to get Dr. Oz in my go, in my search term, you'll never find my strategy on YouTube.

Ah. But like, stuff like that is like, will never be, will never be on, on YouTube. But long you have the basic and the understanding and the foundation mm-hmm. Is the most important part. Right. Self creativity is, again, the. The part where it's all about you, right? Not everybody's creative, you know, which is perfectly fine, but then you have chat g b T to help you, you know, hopefully get be creative for you or mid be creative for you, right?

I think having the community's very important. As you know, I, I had an affiliate community during Covid, during the pandemic, I mean, And I sold that in like 2021 a year later. I think having people that motivates you is super, super important. Like chatting every day telling you that you're good, you're bad, you're doing okay.

I think those are important, right? But starting out at being digital nomad, I think is what type of digital nomad do you wanna be? Do you wanna be an affiliate marketer? Do you wanna be a freelancer? Right? I think those are important, but even then, I don't even think. Freelancers or digital nomads either.

You know what I mean? Yeah. For me, I think digital nomad is about freedom of time, right? Mm-hmm. If you don't have that, you're not a digital nomad. Like a lot of freelancers remote workers, they think they're digital nomads like or you're not. Right? 

Rohail Rizvi: Right. Sometimes they're given that label, but I also personally think like digital nomad is a, is a different breed 'cause they've like completely broken free, both from like, Geography, their independent location, independent, plus time independent.

I think you can, yeah, timing. 

Ian Fernando: Exactly. Exactly. I definitely agree with that. You know, it's just another term for entrepreneurship, I think without, but freedom of mobility, 

Rohail Rizvi: you know? Yeah. Now, I mean, we're seeing the world as, especially after the pandemic becomes so global and companies being run, startups being run with employees all around the world.

So like, yeah, you. Yeah. It, it relates more to being an entrepreneur in my mind now than ever before. Yeah, 

Ian Fernando: definitely agree. Like, I always can argument with people like, oh, I'm doing nomad, but I do yoga instructions online for this company. I'm like that's what, no, you're not nomad. 

Rohail Rizvi: You know? Right, right.

You're still, in a way, it's, it's somewhat still like, kind of freelance. You just, you were able to just get outta office, but nothing wrong. If that's where you're starting off, that's, that's fine. It's it's one step out. Of the system kind of to, to break free from. Agree. You know, it's like one, 

Ian Fernando: you know, you got to first step in the door or whatever they say.

Rohail Rizvi: Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. You just got, get that first step and then after that, you know, you could evolve from being a freelancer to maybe starting your own, own online yoga classes or whatever it might be. Just be able to be on your own. So lastly, if, if you would, could now go back in time and give advice to your younger self at the start of your.

Affiliate marketing, internet marketing career. What, what would you say? Buy Bitcoin. Don't, don't wheel man, don't wheel. 

Ian Fernando: Yeah. I'll find what I've done for sure. I don't think I would change anything about my path. Mm-hmm. But if I was gonna give myself advice I think one big mistake is that. I don't think about, so problem with affiliate marketers is that we're outta money now, not tomorrow.

And my biggest issue, which is also still an issue today, is that if. I kept all my leads back in the day, I would literally just have to send one email every day and I, I'd be making good money. Right? So I think for beginners out there, ha having leads, it's the most important part, right? Capturing leads the most important part.

Right? So another story is when we had our YouTube business. But then part in the beginning we were like making $10,000 a day. Right. And then we were like, Hey, let's do something with these leads. Like we could probably make an extra $10,000 a month. Yeah. Argument was like, do you wanna make $10,000 a day, do 15, 20,000 a day, or do you wanna make $10,000 a month?

Mm-hmm. But like, damn, that makes sense, right? It's an argument. Do I focus more time to make 10,000, 20,000 a day, right? Or do I focus another part of my business and time making 10,000 a month, which is just like $500 an extra a day, right? So didn't that company close down? If I kept those leads and, and kept them warm, I literally would just have, I literally would spend 15 minutes a day, 30 minutes a day, send an email, and I'll be making money consistently.

That would be most of my work nowadays. Whereas now I'm still working like four, five hours a day. Not too bad, right? I still have my time. I can do whatever I want, but if I kept those leads and kept them more and over time, instead of arguing 'em $10,000 a month, I should have done that. And then I would literally just be sending one email a day, even twice a day and just, it'd just be in my a t m, you know what I mean?


Rohail Rizvi: sure. It's crazy, man. The money's in the list, right? That that's what they always say. And it's, it's crazy to think, even now in 2023, email is still kind of king, like in terms of longevity. Everyone's still, no matter what, checks their email every day and 

Ian Fernando: email hasn't even changed a crazy part. 

Rohail Rizvi: Yeah, Gmail is still Gmail.

I mean it's you know, we had SS m s and text, but like still nothing is as personal as email yet, still at this point. Yeah, agreed. 

Ian Fernando: So capturing Deja C lead for sure would be, Advice to tell myself to like, 

Rohail Rizvi: yeah. Nothing man. I, I think back to, you know, prosper 2 0 2 days and volume and seeing all those crazy amounts of clicks we've been driving.

And then just to think back, like we had just captured some of those emails on like a pop under or something would be nice. 

Ian Fernando: Yeah, I know. I know. Yeah. I. It's super, super important. Technically over 

Rohail Rizvi: time it's not too late to start. It's not too late to start. It's you know, yeah, for sure. Starting out to build a list.

Yep. And. And you have a, a community and everything, and you also are working with you know, people in the, in the industry. Is there anything you'd like to share or any any companies or projects you'd like to plug with the listeners 

Ian Fernando: today? Well I recently started a couple for a p d which the network, I'm trying to get.

I'm trying to decide what part of my career path I want to get onto now. So hopefully learning from Jason, may d will put me on a new path because again, I don't know if you feel this way, RO, like I've been in gate for so long that what is next, right? I have my time, I have my freedom. I've accomplished everything I've gotten the cars about in the watches.

What is next after that? So, I think consultant for a big network or an agency is. My next step in trying to discover what I want to do. But other than that, I mean, that's basically my project. I mean, I started consulting in after the pandemic just because I had these thought process of like, what do I want in my career?

What, what is next challenge for me? Right. So, but yeah, I mean you can find me pretty much all over the internet, so 

Rohail Rizvi: I'm good. That's awesome, man. No, I feel you. Like thinking about what's next is always interesting, especially when you've done like you've achieved. The things you've wanted to achieve. It's always like a, a process of evolving, even as an entrepreneur in general.

But it's really cool to see working with like a, a company like A four D and consulting with them and, and you know, using that as kind of a way to learn and evolve. Because, you know, there's a lot, you know, Jason's a great guy to learn a ton from him. You know, just listening to him speak, you know, you always learn something new.

Sure. He's an og, so Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Well, those are wise words to live by. And yeah, I just wanna say thank you for for joining today, Ian. It's been really cool to catch up and, and chat and for sharing your valuable insights and experiences. I'm sure our listeners learn a lot and are inspired by your journey.

So yeah, 

Ian Fernando: appreciate that. Man, thank you for having me. Thank you guys for listening in. Hopefully it was inspirational enough and hopefully you enjoyed some of the creativities and stories. So thank you 

Rohail Rizvi: again, Rob. Definitely, definitely man. Absolutely. For our listeners, if you'd like to learn more about Ian Fernando and his work, be sure to check out his website.

All his social media channels should be able to find him easily. And we'll also link in the show notes below. And as always, thank you for tuning into the Nomadic Millionaire Podcast. Until next time, keep dreaming big and living life on your own terms.

Ian Fernando
Involved in the internet space since 2002 and have been through the ups and downs of this online industry. I am a traveling digital nomad, media buyer, online strategist, and many more online titles.

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